How to break toxic co-dependency with difficult mother?

[AngryandFrustrated]

Just that really.

I'm 36 years old have very recently had this huge realisation that DM and I have a very unhealthy, toxic co dependency involving emotional abuse and manipulation. My DM I strongly suspect, has undiagnosed mental health problems. What they are I don't know and I don't think i will ever know because she will never admit she has a problem and needs help. But she has always been difficult going back to mine and dbs childhood. After doing some research I believe she is very emotionally immature, she cannot tolerate any criticism is always right and gets offended over the silliest things.

Growing up it was fine until we got to age where we started to discover our own opinions and thoughts on stuff, basically we no longer complied with her. This resulted in screaming fits and sulks. Even the most mundane things like for examle disagreeing on what colour we liked would provoke out of proportion anger. Never any violence, she never hit me, but I was often told to shut up when I disagreed with her. As a result I never aired opinions, became a people pleaser and sat on the fence. I also developed severe anxiey and depression.

So I learned to shut up and go along with what she said. This went on for years, DB would always stand up to her, but I was so squashed down I just put up it. I began to wonder how I'd ever cope without her, which became a huge source of anxiety to me and made me very ill. I had few friends, rarely went out without her, and even when I went to uni I stayed at home because I couldn't stand to leave. In my late 20's I ended up having a breakdown, ended up on ADs and received councelling and this is when things began to change for me because I started to realise what had been going on.

She has become increasingly difficult in recent years. I suspect she is depressed because she's lost control over DB and I. Just being in her presence is a nightmare because she complains and moans non stop about everything. She still makes quite a lot of demands of me and I struggle to say no. She's also upped her game and tries even harder to regain control. Think throwing money at us and buying lots of gifts that we've not asked for.

It's just an endless nightmare and I no longer know what to do about it?

Sorry to hear this. My late mother was the same.
MN wasn't around then, but I read this book after a recommendation on here and it was a help:
blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9781626251700?gC=5a105e8b&gclid=CjwKCAjwsdfZBRAkEiwAh2z65rv-zPvynBDpGkE9IK501Lhh0NL1vkRDn4Xhr_ze_dwRyBD55a5uaRoCs7oQAvD_BwE

You've identified the issues. You don't owe her anything.
My suggestion would be to decide what level of contact you can tolerate (which might be none for now at least) and withdraw. Tell her why - write it in a careful letter (don't send it straight away) which sets out the reasons and your ground rules.
If she breaks the rules, withdraw completely.
And, if you can, stop accepting emotionally-loaded and conditional gifts (ie all gifts).
Good luck.

'You've identified the issues. You don't owe her anything.

Very much agree

My mother sounds extremely similar to yours OP. Well done for becoming aware of the unhealthy and toxic dynamic between you. You do not have to put up with her behaviour just because she's your mother. It will suck the life out of you. I'm not at all surprised to hear about your depression and anxiety, and being a people pleaser.

The good news is that this is life after all this, and your life can get much better. You need to see much less of her, or maybe none of her, and to develop iron clad boundaries with her. That's all easier said than done I know. I highly recommend professional support - I was in therapy for several years and I cannot recommend it enough. It was intensely painful, and I grieved for my relationship with my parents for many years, but my guilt and shame and fear are at about 10% of what they used to be.

It's incredibly tough, but well done for putting your own needs first. Keep posting if it helps

All of stuff I read has made me think about detaching from her. Sort of ignoring the awful behaviour and trying to deflect the conversation elsewhere when she starts whinging, Ive tried this but it's not having much success so far. I honestly think she enjoys moaning, but it's all over stuff so pathetic trivial that it's hard to feel sorry for her.

Can you just walk away when you don't to tolerate her moaning?
Just a quick 'I've not come here to listen to negative things. My counsellor has advised me to walk away when you start with this, so I'll see you another time when you are being more positive.

But really, you need to be minimal contact.
How close to her do you live?
Could you stop visits for a while and get some of yourself and your own life back?
I have no idea what this must be like.
But please start to do things for YOU!!!!

You do not owe her anything, let alone a relationship. Its very likely that she has some form of untreated and untreatable personality disorder.

There is indeed life after all this toxic dysfunction and I would also suggest you find a therapist you can work with. BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

I am also not surprised sadly to see that you are a people pleaser; she taught you how to be one. Nor am I surprised to read about your depression and anxiety; she is the root cause of that.

It is not your fault she is the ways she is and you did not make her that way. She never sought the necessary help nor deemed that necessary. BTW what if anything do you know about her own childhood because that often gives clues as well. You also do not mention your dad; is he still present in your life at all?.

What you may well find is that she will actively rail against any boundary you care to set her so ultimately you will need to withdraw from her altogether. Boundaries you can put in place now for your own self would include not accepting any more gifts or money from her, these are given anyway with a whole heap of obligation attached to them.

You need to be and become far more less emotionally available to her because she is using you simply as her emotional punchbag.
Have a read too of the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages and read the "Out of the FOG" website.

You may also want to read about codependency in relationships. A good book to read here would be "Codepedent No More" written by Melodie Beattie.

Her own childhood wasn't great. She's never explicitly stated this, however from things she said it's always sounded like she was fed, clean and clothed but there wasn't much love. My grandmother wasn't very nice or warm IMO, she want interested in us grandchildren and never babysat any of us. Grandfather was much nicer but very under the thumb I think. They were very much pillars of the community in their area though, and very well thought of by friends and neighbours.

Gm once didn't speak to my Mum for six months. She did the same to my Uncle, and neither knew what they'd done wrong. Yet DM was totally devoted to her, would drop everything to help her. I think part of the problem is that my DM wasn't parented very well herself, and I feel sorry for her because of that, but she would never accept that fact and would hit the roof if I ever stated her parents were anything other than perfect. Yet I work with kids, and DM has said things to me about stuff that went on when she was a child that if a child disclosed to me now Id HAVE to report.

'I think part of the problem is that my DM wasn't parented very well herself, and I feel sorry for her because of that, but she would never accept that fact and would hit the roof if I ever stated her parents were anything other than perfect. '

Same situation with my mother. A real lack of love and warmth and empathy as far as I know. I feel really sorry for her too, for your mother and mine! However, you can't talk about it with her / them because anything ever slightly negative will be perceived as an attack, so there can be no healing through conversation. It's really sad, but you absolutely have to keep your own feelings and your own needs front and centre.

I've often felt like I have to choose my mother or myself - I simply cannot keep both of us nurtured, cared for and sane. I choose myself every time.

I asked about your mother's childhood as such dysfunction within families can and does go down the generations. Her mother was abusive and her father was complicit in this by enabling her and acting out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

Your mother simply repeated the same old with you. Not at all surprised to read that they were regarded as pillars of the community; such types often are.

Put yourself first; you do not owe your mother a relationship and it is not your fault she is the ways she is. You did not make her that way.

I think she'd really benefit a lot from some counselling or therapy herself, but she would never admit to needing it so this will never happen. She is incapble of accepting her flaws or admitting she has issues. I don't even think she know she who she is, in that if you were to ask her what makes her who she is and what makes her ticks, she wouldn't know what to say.

Im sure you're right that she could benefit from therapy, but if she's anything like my mother, she has no insight and no real sense of self, and definitely no desire to do any real work on herself

I think ofy mother as a 5 year old, because that's roughly where she is in her emotional development. She can't really make space for anyone else, it's ALL about her. And just as 5 year olds simply cannot be more empathetic, my mother simply cannot do it either. That is a VERY weird thing to accept about your own mother, the person who raised you and who should be a guiding light in your life, but it helps me to manage my expectations of her sometimes

Oh gosh, so so much of what you have written describes my mum and our relationship. I’ve recently come out of yet another dog shit relationship where I took too much, tried to to hard to please etc and having just come out of this weeks therapy session where I was told I need to start working out ‘who I really am’ I’m starting to think that maybe, moving back home to be with mum whilst I sort my head out, wasn’t the wisest of moves x

Lotta that's exactly it. My DM is stuck emotionally as a young child. On the rare occasion I do stand up to her she huffs in a way that little girl would.