Heartbroken at the thought of broken family

[Bobbster]

I have been with my partner for 17 years, have 2 gorgeous boys aged 9 and 7. The relationship has been breaking down for the past 5 years but we have stayed together so far for the children. He has been talking about splitting up that whole time, but nothing ever happens and then he sends confusing messages and plans for the future - like booking a summer holiday altogether, buying a new family car, adding kids to private health scheme etc. Last night we had a discussion where he said we are definitely splitting up when the eldest goes to secondary next September. He won't move out before then, he has been in the spare room for a few months.

I don't particularly love him but the thought of splitting up the family and the effect it will have on the boys is killing me. I am a firm believer that you do whatever it takes to provide your children with a stable home, and that you put your own selfish needs after theirs. I can't bear the thought of not seeing them every day and don't think I would cope at all well, I can't see it making me any happier. My youngest is always saying things like "family is the most important thing". My eldest is tricky, has anger issues, trouble with emotional regulation and is showing signs of Tourettes. I cannot see how splitting the family unit is going to help these things.

He has always been a challenging child since the beginning, my partner found it particularly stressful, became quite anxious and it took a long time to persuade him to have a second. I desperately wanted a third but he refused, so I suppose there is some lingering resentment on my side. We have very different parenting styles, I am more laid back, he is very big on discipline, strict bedtimes etc. Everything that goes wrong - e.g my son not being good at losing, or them being fussy eaters - he blames on my parenting.

My partner is quite a shouty, short-tempered critical person. I have a fear of conflict and confrontation so tend to withdraw as a self-preservation thing. A lot gets swept under the carpet, nothing gets resloved and the gap has been widening.

I am currently only working 15 hours a week in a school as I want to be able to see my children after school and not put them in clubs in the summer holidays. He says I need to get a full time job so we can buy 2 properties. I should add that I am suffering from anxiety and depression, am on anti-depressants and doing CBT, but I do drink too much alcohol as a coping mechanism (we both do).

Please help me as I really don't want to split up the family unit, having to be ferried between 2 homes would be so sad and disruptive for them.

Is the house in both your names?

Do you have joint bank accounts, joint savings? Do you have a pension?

The house is in both names, I put a lump sum of cash in so would hope to get that back (still not enough for a new property). We have joint bank accounts but our salaries go into our own personal bank accounts and we transfer to joint accordingly. No joint savings, I have about 14k. He has a big pension, I have a tiny one not worth much.

Do you think he would be willing to be generous in order for you to set up on your own?

How come you never married?

Yes he is generous and would maybe help me out, however he does want me to get a full time job, which I can understand but it hasn't worked out before with picking kids up/school holidays etc.

We never married as neither of us ever wanted to, we thought having a joint mortgage and children together was a big commitment in itself (obviously not!)

Unfortunately if you were married you would have been entitled to a share of everything (including his pension) to compensate you for all the unpaid work you have done.

I think you need to point out to him that your earning capacity is not what it was due to the fact that you put your career on the back burner to raise his children, and that he might be overestimating your ability to just go out and get a full-time job now. If he wants the two of you to go your separate ways, he needs to help you out.

And it goes without saying that he will need to pay at least half of all the additional childcare costs that will be incurred if you work full-time. He really ought to be paying more than half, if his income is much bigger than yours.

I'm in a similar position OP but for different reasons (my drinking has made DH fall.out of love but drinking was a symptom of my unhappiness). He is still at home in the spare room until we pay off a huge bill then he will rent. We are also due to go on a family holiday in 4 weeks which is part of a reward for a significant achievement of DS (20 but going on 14). It's DS' dream holiday and it was the first thing he said about when we told him about separating. He is desperate for us all to go and I've said -yes - no, it's too hard, now back to yes. I just cannot let him down so I am just going to suck it up and put on a brave face.

I too am not sure if I want to stay with DH because I want to be with him, or due to the fear of being alone. My youngest is nearly 18 so I fear being a 50+ singleton with nobody to share weekends and holidays with. It's only been 4 days and my head is spinning. He's said he is definitely leaving so I don't really have a choice- it's more how I come to terms with it. If I thought I truly didn't want him it would feel easier. It's a total mind fuck.

Yes I agree getting married would have given me more financial security. I had been married previously and that ended badly so I guess I didn't want to go through it again, maybe wrong move in hindsight.

I feel so stressed and exhausted trying to juggle everyone's feelings in my head, and worrying about money.

I feel your confusion saltandvinegar. I have just looked at photos of where we have booked to go on holiday and now I am changing my mind about maybe going so I'm not missing out, and back and forth we go. This is a situation I never thought I would find myself in, but then noone ever does I am sure.

It sounds like you have to depend on his generosity if you have never married. He won't like it if you don't stick to the "plan" he has. I really hope you can work things out amicably because I think the split is inevitable and the best thing for all four of you. You just need to process this and get your head round it.
You say you can't afford a solicitor. I think you can't afford not to have one if there are joint assets, however I think the not being married might mean that you have to tread carefully.

If your son is 9, does he only have one more year before secondary school?

It sounds like your OH has made up his mind and wants to separate, so I think you first need to come to terms with this, and then use that one year to prepare yourself.

Ultimately, you can continue to work as you are currently, but you need to check what benefits you would be entitled to if you did. Rules are becoming more strident so you need to check what you could be entitled to or not.

As for staying for the kids, I personally think this is the wrong reasons. You are admitting that you are depressed, anxious, and that both drink in addition to your OH shouting a lot, which will be his way of dealing with his anxieties. How can this be a good environment for your children? Don't underestimate your kids' ability to understand the dynamics of your relationship. You can be sure that they know that there is no more love between your and your OH. Maybe posters have shared how they wished their parents are separated rather than live in a stressful environment and some even resenting the parent they felt was holding on.

What will be best for your children is to grow up in the least stressful environment with parents who are happy, where they are allowed to spend quality time with both without feeling pulled in the middle. If you can achieve this with your OH, then you will be good parents.

As for the holiday, I can see your OH's point as he will see it that he is making an effort every day to remain in the house currently, so feel that it shouldn't be too much for you to do the same when away. Surely if you don't go, your kids will know what is going on anyway won't they?

Very tough times but you'll get out of it stronger and from what you've written so far, much happier once you've settled again.

There is no way you can put on this front for another year. I presumed you meant this September. You need to take control of this and push for sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't tell the kids the real reason for not going on holiday, I would just leave it until the day they left and say I was too sick - they would perhaps be initially disappointed but would soon forget once there with all the fun and activities on offer.

I think my partner is saying next September so that we can get our child into the nearest outstanding secondary. Does anyone know how long you have to be at current address when applying for school places? If we did get 2 smaller properties they could be in catchment, but maybe they won't accept it if we are there for less than 6 months before application.

I think you are totally undermining your kids' intelligence. They will know you are lying, that will make them feel much worse. They could even start thinking it's something to do with them. Living in pretense and lies yield insecurities. I'm sorry to say but I think you are doing more damage by your way of looking at things then being totally honest with them and giving the truth (age appropriately) about your relationship.

Schools/LA rules are different. Some will not be bothered if you've moved after application by the time they start, others, ie. those that are oversubscribed do and will double check on the electoral role and could take an offer of a place back.

The school is massively oversubscribed so moving could be risky.
I don't want to lie to my children but I don't think I can tell them I'm not going on holiday because we are splitting up and then expect thwm to be OK with that information whilst away without me and then at home for a year while we sort finances.

Thinking about a couple of issues in the past, minor ones, when we had just moved in to our new house, youngest baby was 11 months and oldest just turned 3, he asked if I could move out for the weekend with the kids so that he could have a group of mates to stay for a lads weekend. I said no as I didn't have any friends in the area at that stage, and I do not get on with my parents at all, and even so they do not live nearby. This kicked off a row, who was in the right?

Also, he has been obsessive about a couple of things, after his parents died, he became besotted with keeping tropical fish, talking about them endlessly and spending a fortune (his Dad - who he didn't get on with/was abusive - used to keep fish). I just nodded along a lot of the time as couldn't believe how much it was costing and had taken over his life. After a year or 2 he sold the fish as they were so time consuming and boring (his comments).

He is now going through a similar obsession with growing chilli plants, he moves them in and out the house about 3 times a day so they are getting the best sun and doesn't let the kids play football while the plants are out there. Does this seem strange to you?

@Bobbster I am several weeks post separation which had a five month run up. My partners behaviour was aimed at me and he was good as ever with the kids. Now with breathing space I see my daughter clearly picked something up as she won't even go to see him. The boys (much younger) already love their two nights with him because they get one to one and I get a little space. My daughter also enjoys that 1:1 time with me and we tend to do something like go out for tea or a walk, or something girly. They really are ok as they have processed the initial shock. I have found the boys quite factual in their approach - kids tend to be very 'I want', and once it became that this want of Dad being here like normal wasn't going to be a thing, they've absorbed it and family life in my house has resumed as normal, minus the awful atmosphere. I'm obviously still working through my own feelings, but they keep me so busy alongside my job that it really is ok. I am also from split parents with huge damage done, and I truly believe that it's not the separation that does the damage but the behaviour afterwards. My ex and I are communication regarding the kids, with flexibility, and it's working well so far. I was held back for a long time because of the kids but I realised it was my dream I was holding together, not theirs, because they generally exist in the here and now. They will be absolutely fine if this is conducted appropriately-as my mum said to me, you won't be the first nor the last.

The relationship sounds toxic and a bad environment for the children. They do see and hear things and pick up on atmospheres.

He's unhappy and is right to want out. He standing up for himself which he didn't do when he was "talked" into a second child he didn't want. You talk of having resentment over a third but don't seem to acknowledge it was wrong to force him into a second just because you wanted something. He sounds hard work with his obsessions, could be a coping mechanism or something else.

He's right in you will have to work more, the children aren't young and there's no reason to not use childcare. If you have it written in your mortgage re the house deposit it will be safe but unless it covers a new property in full then you need a job that allows you to get a mortgage.

The new house issue...he was probably in the wrong for expecting you to say yes. But..depending how old he was at the time (maturity) and wether it was his first own place or even if had just been a while since he had his own space.
I can see how he would get a bit over excited at the prospect of having his own place, telling the lads (who possibly live with parents?)
Fish thing.., well some people
Do strange things when a parent dies regardless of their relationship.it seems like he was grieving and possibly trying to find a happy connection with his dad.

Chilli plants: a bit OTT.
But what is the point in overthinking all of these things? Are you trying to justify a reason to accept its over?

Bobbster, it is not going to do much good to focus on the past. Who cares who was right or wrong about a one off event that happened years ago? What you need to focus on is the now and later.

Of course you should tell your sons the day before going on holiday that you will not be there because their dad and you are no longer together. You need to either agree with your OH that it is time to start having some discussion with them so they understand why you are not going, or you need to go. They will NOT believe that you are ill, or at least certainly question it. Think of it, it's not like your OH is going to go on about how terrible it is that you are poorly, how they should call you twice a day to check your ok, that he misses you etc... Kids are not stupid.

I think you are still overwhelmingly stuck in the denial stage and I think your OH saying he will stay another year is actually making it much harder for everyone to face reality.

Drinking has a massive impact on kids. My SM drank too much, said horrible things when she did to both my dad and step-sister, but had no recollection of doing so the day after and wouldn't believe it either because it was so unlike her. She did so though and she couldn't see how it slowly affected my sister who ended up having many issues in her teenager years. Thankfully, my SM went to rehab (twice) and finally got to the other side of it and even managed to save her relationship with my dad (who did leave for 4 months).

I didn't talk him into having a second child, I stated that's what I wanted then didn't mention it for months. He came round of his own accord and says it was the right thing to do as he can see how much they mean to each other.

I guess I wouldn't feel so overwhelmed if we could stay in the family home. The thought of starting all over again feels huge. Yes I need to get more work hours, am looking at the moment, still will be a low salary though in my line of work.

I have had to start from scratch twice!
Once I ran from a dv relationship and left everything behind. I had one bag of clothes/toothbrush etc... even though I had poured 4 years of hard work into that house, and everything was bought jointly.
It may seem daunting to start again in a new house, but I’ll tell you it was refreshing. Make a project out of it, pick your own paint colours/furnishings.

I wouldn't tell the kids the real reason for not going on holiday, I would just leave it until the day they left and say I was too sick

That really stood out for me as a very strange way to behave. If you want happy secure children, dont lie to them at the last minute. That kind of instability will have an effect on them. More importantly, having to live with two very unhappy parents will affect them now and in the future, this is what they are learning about how a relationship should look.

My parents had a bad marriage, as did DH's. It was grim for both of us and has definitely affected both of us. Talking about our pasts, we married people we never should have done and launched into destructive unhappy marriages. That was all we both knew. Fortunately we both divorced and then met a few years later. If this gives you the hope and courage to resolve the awful situation, one of my DSSs (now adult) has often said that he is really happy how things have turned out and glad that his parents split up. Our children are all happy, well adjusted adults. You and your children can have the same future. Please give them that chance.

This isn’t the 1950’s we’re couloirs stay together for the children. You have choices.

You aren’t happy and all research says it’s better for children if parents aren’t together. This is worth a read:

metro.co.uk/2017/08/12/why-staying-together-for-the-sake-of-the-kids-is-the-worst-thing-that-parents-can-do-6794603/

You don’t have to stay in a unhappy marriage, you are choosing to. IMO better for children to see 2 happy parents who aren’t together than witness a toxic marriage.

These were just a couple of examples from the past, I have lots more where he has been very unkind and said horribly hurtful things but as you say there is no point in rehashing that now.

I never drink so much I can't remember what I said, and always when kids are in bed. OH can get even more snappy when drinking. I do need to cut back for own health.