At what point do you admit defeat (for the dc)?

[mrscrane]

Married 15 years, 4 dc - 14, 12, 6 and 2. I am a sahm. We have no family support near by.

After yet another row last night I am wondering if we are doing the right thing staying together any more. I feel that on the whole we have a good relationship. We can enjoy time and activities together, both pull our weight domestically and parenting wise. Communication is very open I feel, and we are usually able to talk issues through (mainly instigated by me though). Our sex life is acceptable, considering dc, no time, tiredness etc.

BUT...this past 6 months or so it just feel like we are consistently patching ourselves up after fall outs and I am becoming worn down by it. I am really concerned that we are creating a toxic atmosphere for the dc due to this. For background - dh suffers with depressive and anxiety, I have been through it a bit too since the birth of last dc. We also nearly split around 8 years ago (our relationship at that time was awful and we were both in a bad place). I feel that neither of us has really let go of the things said or done at that time tbh.

Our main issue at the moment is always how to parent the older dc. The 12 year old is particularly challenging at times and the 14 year old is a typical lippy/stoppy teenager. We literally have a version of the same row every couple of weeks. It's just seems to turn nasty and bitter so quickly

The roles are thus - one of them behaves badly, dh reacts in a way which I deem to be inappropriate (swears, rants, continues to 'goad' the offending child and seems to be hell bent on 'revenge'/punishment). He does all of this giving no fucks if the other dc are there or whoever happens to be listening.

I feel compelled to wade in and try to de-escalate situation. This inevitably turns into a row between dh and I. Cue massive fallout with all of the dc witnessing this. He has no discretion and thinks arguing in front of them (about them!) isn't inappropriate.

He would say I consistently undermine him, don't back him up and am generally a hypocrite/pious and ineffective with the dc.

We are at a stale mate. We are both worn down by it, and I am worried about the effect it is having on the entire family . Maybe it's time to admit we can't carry on together?

OP have you and DH ever discussed parenting tactics? Agreed on a plan of how to deal with certain situations?

I don't really have experience in parenting, but from what i have witnessed from my dad and stepmum i came to realise this: kids divide and conquer!
When my half-sister was younger i remember quite a few incidents where she didn't want to eat her main meal and she wanted ice cream/treats instead. DSM will say to her you can have treats if you eat your food. Dsis would end up not eating her food but still demanding treats. DSM would say no and there she would start screaming and crying. DSM refused to give in, my DF will walk in the room ask why Dsis was upset, DSM will explain the deal they made and how DS didn't eat, DF will be like ' oh, common give my precious little angel her ice cream' and he would go get her treats.... DSM would always end up fuming! They had big rows about it.
If the opposite happened and DF was upset with Dsis, DSM would stay out of it and not say anything, even though she thought my DF was overreacting. She would say so to him but only when Dsis was out of earshot.
Again in their fights she would mention how she always respected his decisions even though she didn't agree but in return he would always undermine her when she was doing the parenting.

Sorry that was a long boring paragraph, but my point was that you need to be a team. Agree on a common front and support each other even if you don't agree at that moment. (As long as no one is being violent). When you are alone you can point out things you didn't agree on and work on them. Maybe ask your DH to try and control his swearing more around the DC. If another argument happens can you take the other DC not involved to another part of the house?
If you have on the whole a good relationship don't let something like this divide you. Try some talking first and agree on some rules. See if your dh is willing to work together with you. If not..then you can start revaluating your marriage.

As i mentioned I don't have parenting experience yet, so feel free to tell me to get lost! I expect all the things i wrote are easier said than done. I just didn't want to read and run...

He does what to your children?!

Even without knowing what kind of "bad behaviour" from the children supposedly triggers his reactions, swearing at them, "goading" them,mane revenge punishments are completely unacceptable.

I'm glad you refuse to back him up on such behaviour. It's not parenting, it's appalling. Teenagers push boundaries as part of figuring out who they are as individuals separate from their parents and how they fit into the world. They need consistency in response, not abuse.

It sounds distressing for you, but must be incredibly distressing for the children. Especially the younger ones who won't have any way to interpret what's going on other than "it must be my fault".

Frankly, his version of describing you just sounds like put downs and aggression for not doing what he wants, rather than valid reflection.

How do you feel about your options here? Will he listen to you if you try and discuss this before he finds something to kick off about? How does he respond?

His reaction will probably tell you whether this is something that can be improved, or not.

*and revenge punishments

Btw, how does he think swearing and being verbally abusive and threatening towards the children is going to teach them not to be "stroppy" or "lippy"?

He's modelling that behaviour as an acceptable way to behave. He shouldn't be surprised to find them copying him.

Thanks for responding.

When I say 'revenge' punishments what I mean is - he will announce a punishment which I feel is way over the top (and I feel motivated by an urge to have a stab basically). I DO have an issue with punishment as a concept, but find myself dishing them out now and again (hence the hypocrisy comment from dh). However I try k make them more consequential eg dd wasn't getting up in time for school and was trying to blame everyone but herself, so I grounded her for the week as seeing friends is clearly not helping her evening organisation and bedtimes.

I definitely get cross with the dc more frequently than he does - I just feel that my responses rarely cross over into inappropriate language etc.

Hi OP

I have walked that road with roles reversed. I did the things your DH does.

I'm not proud at all of that and ended up going to anger management and therapy because I was oh so much the bad person against my DP being the long suffering kind and tolerant person. He wasn't just those things of course - he was also weak, scared, a hypocrite, too busy or tired to take the long road, didn't see the kids had grown up, was - as I was- acting out tensions in our relationship in front of the kids.

By this time our DC were 17-18. Without doubt I was the "bad person" in our family. I was so stuck and frustrated at how my DP was "parenting" our kids.

What I learned via counselling and anger course was that I had needs that were 100% being ignored by my Family. Eg

To be heard - my DP and Dc would effectively ignore me eg asking the kids to tidy their mess in the kitchen. My DP would step up and tidy it for them.

To be valued - my DP simply discounted my view that the kids needed to start (! At 18!) doing things for themselves. He would always protect them from the horror of eg getting their dirty clothes in the wash.

To be part of a group - I was told repeatedly by all three that I was the odd and unacceptable person while they were quite happy with lovely Dad doing everything and why was I such a bitch about it.

It was hell

I love my kids, I wanted them to grow up strong capable and respectful.
I was lost, desperate, hurt, angry

I ended up leaving. I love my DP and my DC but this tension was intolerable for all of us.

Long post and all about me, but posted as I hope it might help you see where your DH is. You get in well etc normally - but parenting growing kids is putting pressure on all of you. This may be because you too need to bac him up, help him achieve his reasonable aims of bringing up the kids in a way that is not so divisive.

Try not to get so polarised. It will damage your family your DC and your DH as well as you if you don't sort this in a more equitable way.

Buckingfrolicks - good to get another perspective, thanks. Yes dh often says that he feels like he is always painted as the villain.

As he sees it the issue is that our dc are rude and poorly behaved. As I see it - one parent can't cope with the reality of parenting teens and needs to grow up!

What about a trial separation? Do the parenting separately for 6 months and see if that gives you any clarity. It might be good to get a bit of space and see if that helps you both cool down and work out the best thing to do. If he’s got to sort the kids out on his own he might actually work out that it’s best to pick your battles. If he’s also got to pursue a relationship with the kids without you being the nice facilitator then he’s probably going to have to change his tactics. At the moment you are everybody’s cushion and everybody’s safe place.