My DB burying his head in the sand

[AppleSalad]

My DB is 22, he was never academic and never pushed by his school either (despite obvious issues), just pushed towards a career he chose to stop with and it's now too late. He's been a bit of an idler in his adult life so far but seems to have accepted some responsibilities in life recently like getting a job, moving out, etc.

Deep down he's a great person, I can see it but I think he just doesn't have the skills to sort himself out fully and I can see why he is the way he is. DPs have tried tough love but he just burries his head in the sand.

Since my DC was born, has seen us once because we were at a family event and I try to message him (because a phone call is like talking to a teenager) and it goes nowhere.

We have an event coming up and I've asked him to come which has been met with silence. DF says he is being noncommittal when they spoke and because he lives with a partner, can't pin him down.

I'm wondering whether to send a text along the lines of 'Youre 22, an uncle now and you will end up missing out on this over the years. Please try to make it'. Really I want to have a sit down and talk about some serious issues over the years and make him address them but he will clam up and say he's fine which will aggravate me because if thats so then he doesn't have any excuse.

Do I text him? How do you deal with someone like this? If I stop trying I fear he won't try either and my own family and him will never have a relationship.

Op, you say you're very close but every single thing you say about him is judgemental,negative, disapproving, demanding and superior. You also seem to be focused on his past, it seems his teenage years, instead of accepting him for thr man he is today, a responsible father, employed,own home and in a stable relationship.

Thr things you wish to criticise him for you seem to be guilty of too. Yet you still judge him and find him lacking.

Do not send him that text. He is a parent. It is one of rhe most condescending things ever to text him that.

You're clearly not very close, he ignores you and does not seem to be keen to be overly involved with you. I would take a step back and think why that may be. Most of us can guess it's because you're so disapproving and judgemental of him. But you seem to be unable to see that.

He isn't a teenager any more. Let it go. Stop holding him accountable for his teenage years and accept the man he's become. Stop critiscing him to uour parents. As said you are not a child any more and you need to stop acting like one. You've got to thr stage it reflects now more on you than him and your parents will know it.

If he is a father who only took on responsibility when forced to do so I would say you are on a hiding to nothing to expect him to focus on an uncle role! You can't make other people grow up, you could say you missed him though.

Maybe he’s focusing on his own children rather than you and his parents.

If he is a father who only took on responsibility when forced to do so

What does that actually mean though? It could mean many different things. Given the ops general opinion on her brother, it could be something or nothing.

He sounds like my brother. Not very academic, but always employed, and looks after his family. He and I rarely see each other, I don't see his kids, or his mine, but we sent each other videos and pictures of them on Whatsapp. He has many issues, but he decides to deal with them in his own way. Growing up, he was the black sheep and I could do no wrong. He was very ill a few years ago and I visited on his good days but we have gone back to our norm of mostly ignoring each other. I love him no less, and I assume the feeling is mutual, but he's his own man and I respect that. If something happened again that shook up his life, I'd hang around again, but really, he has his way of dealing and I have mine.

Baby's mum (his ex) threatened CM as soon as she found out he started working so he agreed to pay her. He didn't, so his DP pays and reclaims from him via living expenses, this I know from his DP who was moaning about money being tight. He is now aware and accepts it but doesn't have any interest in doing anything further.

Thank you to everyone for the advice, genuinely. I'm not sure if you can pick up that tone from my replies but I didn't get why someone would just cut everyone out of their life but I do have to step back and leave it be and carry on being positive when I see him. To reiterate, I've never said anything like this to him and the reason I mentioned it is it's what DPs and siblings say when they (rarely) see him, bits of what he tells me too and it's background not all an opinion. I do want him to do more but don't feel he is beneath me, my teenage years were a mess. It's all from this year, not years ago, substance abuse I believe is older as he was young but he still doesn't look like he's taking care of himself. I have always said that it's never too late for him but did feel hurt for how I remember who he used to be and for my DC too. Thinking about it though, I want family to be in my DC's life by choice not by pestering.

Never too late? FFS he's only 22. Sounds like a load of projection to me. Concentrate on yourself.

You are being ridiculous.

Maybe if you let things go and stop being so judgemental he might want to see you.

@Feckers2018 I meant for him and I but I've said numerous times I wasn't judging him. I'm always really positive, asked how the job hunt (because he'd always tell me he was looking) or how work is like you do anyone and always just left it there because I can't do anything about it and it isn't my issue. You've said exactly what other PPs have said but I do hope it makes you feel better sticking the knife in more.

OP he doesn't like you. I don't blame him. You ARE being judgemental!! Plenty of people go no contact with their families. How are you in a position to nag him when you've said yourself you also didn't do well academically, your teenage years were a mess etc.

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

There's always a reason behind why someone chooses to distance themselves from family - you obviously were never that close if you genuinely 'have no idea'.

We have other siblings that we don't see because my father never bothered with them
So home life was not really a happy or healthy one then?
Did school fail to push you too?
Sounds like you children were neglected/not parented in a healthy manner in some areas growing up, you're in denial and projecting/blaming a lot of dysfunction onto him.

Op, you say you're very close but every single thing you say about him is judgemental,negative, disapproving, demanding and superior
Unfortunately, i agree with this poster.
Sometimes it's what you don't say, or the manner in which you come across, that says it all.

@HeebieJeebies456 I think you've crossed a line suggesting we were neglected or not parented correctly. I wouldn't dare talk about someone's parents without knowing them.

that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

i'm basing my opinion on what you've posted and enough lived life experience to know that family dynamics play a majority role in how your life is affected.

Also, no parent is 100% perfect.
They may be wonderful in many ways but not so wonderful in others.
I disagree that it's 'crossing a line' to suggest that.

Heebie has crossed no line. She is giving advice just as everyone else is.
Don't EVEN ask how the job hunting is going. Do you see? If he is sensitive and it sounds like he is, by you even asking, it's an irritation. I too am presuming that he deliberately keeps his interactions with his family to a minimum. If you want a relationship with him in the future you have to keep it as superficial, light and frothy as possible.
What you are doing now isn't working. Take advice from others who have different life experience or have found what works in situations such as these. Re-read your original post. It oozes misery that your Bro doesn't come up to the standards you would wish as an uncle to your DC. That may well be bubbling out of you like a fountain even if you deny you say it in words when actually in his presence.

Just text him regularly to give him little bits of news. Stay in touch like that. As for party just say hope you can make it as we would love to see you. Are you in touch with his dp and do you ever get to see his child?
My ds is 22 and comes to family events if it suits him as he is busy with friends travelling etc. He wouldn't see iit as a big priority as loves his own life too much.
Most impirtant thing is to keep the lines of communication open so as he matures relationship may blossom.
Unfortunately substance abuse can do lasting damage and this may have happened. Accept him as he is otherwise you will waste your own energy on him.

No line has been crossed. You said you had a bad time as a teen and that some of your siblings don't talk to any of you because of your dad.

It's not a big leap to wonder, given the info YOU have posted, that you had a difficult young life.

That doesn't make your parents evil or completely shit. But this is all based on your posts.

the problem is you are looking at his life from your perspective. my db sodded off to usa 20 years ago. really without a backward glance. i have come to accept that he views family life differently.
he was somewhat amazed when i told him that i had other plans for my recent big birthday when he wanted to "come home" for it. he seems to think that we are all sitting around waiting for him when in actual fact i hardly even think of him anymore!

He is 22 not 92. Of course it isn't too late.

It seems like an awful lot of his life he has been forced into a role.

Now he is being forced into the role of dutiful uncle.

No wonder he has a substance abuse problem.

I wonder how much effort your parents put in to helping him choose a career.

Just because you don't have GCSEs, A levels or a university education doesn't mean your life is a right off and you are forced to accept minimum wage jobs.

There was a thread on here recently where one poster was saying how she had got a degree and studied and trained for her career which paid £9 per hour where as a cleaner was asking £17 and I was pointing out even 18 year old dd was on £15 per hour for one of her jobs.

Whilst a lot of parents aspire to their children working in an office environment sometimes you have to step back and look at the person. I know dd would be mightily depressed in an office but as an events waitress she is brilliant and everyday it is a different place working with different people.

Instead of looking on him as a failure at 22 why not take the view that he is only 22 and suggest there are other career paths to take and they sometimes pay better and would make him a lot happier.

He doesn't seem like a happy person

He doesn't want to see you, don't push him.

If, when you do occasionally see him, the conversation always turns to the job hunt and his life choices then I'm not surprised he is avoiding you.

You sound pushy and judgemental because he doesn't live his life according to your rules or up to your standard, give the poor guy a break.

I wouldn’t text him with snippets of info. If he’s interested he’ll ask, if not, leave him be. Becoming an uncle isn’t a ‘thing’ they’re your children, he didn’t choose to become an uncle

As PPs have said, a man who doesn’t see his DC and only paid maintenance under duress is unlikely to be an involved uncle.

Suggest forgetting about the wider family issues with him (you refer to him not bothering with “any of us”) and about his relationship with your DC and thinking about what positive changes you might like your personal relationship with him, and seeking to work towards that from your side - he may or may not respond positively.

Applesalad, I'm really sorry to hear this. It's a loss! I think its really tough when our siblings aren't interested in our kids. I can relate, mine aren't either. They're alot older but me getting pregnant late in life triggered all this stuff for them and they were both really critical of my approach/saying babies aren't interesting etc before stopping contact for periods of years unless there was a family 'do' and then pretending and expecting me to pretend we're happy families.

I watch those around me figure out the dynamics of their families and whilst it isn't easy there needs to be willing on both sides. And there is always this nagging feeling that I'm somehow not enough as my siblings aren't bothered. And as these responses would indicate there is some harsh judgement out there! I've had it in person - 'you're the difficult one' etc from people who barely know me. It's not something people have much empaphy towards.

In my story yes, I'd say this leads back to my childhood and my parents. And certain dynamics where it was easier to take stuff out on me instead of maybe the source of the feelings - parents. And this just carries on into adult life. But that's my story. I don't know what yours is.

I've got feelings about it defo but I've come to an acceptance. I've also stopped trying to make ammends for our childhood and be there for them when it isn't returned. And I've made sure there are lots of other great people in my ds's life instead, still working on that part for myself!