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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can a verbal abuser change? Is it ok to not be able to get over certain actions of the past?

40 replies

Lalalandab · 12/06/2018 19:41

I'm brand new on here. I've had an extremely volatile past couple years with DH who has done some horrific things very early in our marriage, and is now saying he realizes and wants to go to therapy before we call it quits.

Briefly- I got married 2 years ago and moved to another part of the world. I left behind a solid career, great life, family and friends to litterally to across the world where my husband worked and lived. One day after our wedding (litterally) he requested I start wearing certain clothes to be more modest (scarves to cover chest area etc). I was surprised a this was never raised before. I did it but hesitated and he started swearing and yelling and saying go back home if this is such a big deal for you, I wish I married someone more modest. Obviously massive fight ensued, with no apology. I was extremely hurt. Next day while going to honeymoon, another massive fight left me in tears.

When we arrived at honeymoon location he agreed to move past things as try to enjoy our time, only to ten minutes later after I smiled at a man, tell me I "eye f'd him" and called me a cu"t, whore, slut, bit** and said he won't stay with me and proceeded to try and book a seperate room. I, I think in shock, chased him like a dog and begged him to stay. I kept thinking how could this be happening to me 3 days after my beautiful wedding.

He stayed. No appolgoy. I faked it entire honeymoon, until we had some intimacy issues (Bc I was dying inside and it was last thing I wanted to do as it was my first sexual experience) and he threatened to leave and left two more times due to my difficulty with that area - yelling horrific things to me after I experienced pain or difficulty with intimacy and he would leave saying this isn't a marriage - I again chased like an idiot.

Fast forward 2 years. The extreme verbal abuse stopped- no more cu*t or whore (only once or twice more), but extreme reactions continued. Harsh words were used when he would get angry- you are useless, trash, I can replace you with someone younger, I wish you were raised better. But now I would respond as well and also verbally attack him in defense and sadly out of extreme frustration, resort to restraining him or scratching. So he says he has put up with me being physically abusive as well as verbally abusive.

As crazy as it sounds, we had good times in between as well where he was extremely kind and loving. But I can never stop thinking about the honeymoon. Ever. I have deep shame and regret about how I handled it and feel I set the tone for rest of marriage.

Is it possible to get over something a traumatic as that, or is it ok to after 2 years has passed say that I can't get over it? That i cannot get over how unfairly I was treated?

I left after a recent bad episode and suffered some health issues right after I left and have been recovering back in my original home. He recently came and has said he wants to fix things and get therapy together Bc he realizes he was wrong. He seems sincere and is saying we can't throw the towel in without giving therapy a sincere shot.

I am torn Bc I have hope for change but also severe resentment. And it's been months and I just can't make a decision. I also am older (35) and worry about having children if I have to start all over again.

Please be kind in responses.

OP posts:
squishee · 13/06/2018 18:51

Bin him off. They don't change.

DameFanny · 13/06/2018 19:04

You were not mutually abusive

YOU WERE NOT MUTUALLY ABUSIVE

He attacked you past your breaking point and you broke

If you go for counseling with him, then two things are likely. Either your counselor is decent and advises that counseling is a REALLY bad idea where there's abuse OR you get a shit counselor who feeds your ex's delusions. Please don't do it.

You don't need your ex's permission to call it quits. You don't need to justify anything to him. You don't need to answer the phone to him. All you need is a solicitor.

And Women's Aid can help you talk this through - please give them a call? Please?

Lalalandab · 13/06/2018 19:41

You are all very helpful. I'm actually in Canada now not in U.K. But I will look into the online course they offer.

OP posts:
lifebegins50 · 13/06/2018 20:02

It alwsys escalates and no surprise it started after the marriage that is typical.

You may want to reflect on how you could have handled it better (such as walk away and not react) but he likely to be a master of manipulation and knew how to press buttons.Forgive yourself and learn from it.

Underneath this man may not like women as seems to have contempt for women.

You were right to leave at the last incident, stay gone as he will not change.

CaledonianQueen · 13/06/2018 20:27

This man is horrendously abusive, you mention wanting to start a family - You CANNOT risk starting a family with this man!

Domestic abuse is known to escalate during pregnancy, your h is already incredibly abusive, he could be so much worse once you are pregnant! For that reason alone, you have to leave him! You cannot have children with your h, not without risking the lives/ well-being of both you and your unborn child!

You deserve so much better!

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 13/06/2018 20:39

There are different types of anger. He has predatory anger. He is a predator.

You have frustration anger. Anything you do, he can find fault with...that would frustrate anyone.

You are his emotional anger toilet. But now you are back home and he realizes you might stay there and not go back to him. Can you please see that his nice-nice is a fake facade? He is not sincere. He tip his hand and will blow a head gasket sooner or later if/when you don’t take his bait. Leave the bait.

LB2203 · 13/06/2018 20:47

Swearing at someone after they flip out at you for the nth time is not being mutually abusive. It's breaking under extreme pressure.

It makes me sad how deeply inside your head he's gotten. And sadder still for you that he's told you it's your fault he gets "angry" with you and behaves this way towards you, and you've accepted it.

Do you know the real reason why he only gets "angry" with you and nobody else? Because it's not anger, it's entirely manufactured rage that he is completely in control of. That is why it only happens with you and not to anybody else, not to his boss, not to random people in the street. Because he is in complete control and is choosing to behave that way. If he ever broke things when he was "angry", I'm sure he managed to only break your things and never his.

Someone who is puffed up and looks enraged is frightening, aren't they? Makes you feel less able to stand your ground. Panics you so you can't step back and see what's really going on.

It's in his interests for you to doubt yourself and to believe you were to blame as well, or that you are actually the abusive one.

That's why he's pushing for joint counselling, so he can manipulate the counsellor into blaming you. This is why joint counselling in cases of abuse is never recommended and should not happen. It's dangerous. Simple as that.

When I first saw a domestic violence counsellor, I felt similarly to you. I was guilt stricken about having shouted back and making it worse. I told her I was just as bad as him and didn't deserve her kindness or help.

She told me the things people here have told you, about how it does not make you abusive, and is not the same, etc.

She then went on to add that she was glad I had tried to stand up for myself*, because it showed that there was a part of me deep down that did recognise that what he was doing was wrong and unfair and undeserved. And that I needed to hold onto that while I tried to piece myself back together.

So I'm going to say the same to you. I'm glad that there was a part of you that recognised the injustice of what was happening to you. Please try and keep hold of that. It will help you.

(* with a disclaimer that obviously that wouldn't have been recommended to me to go off and do if she was advising me when I was still in the relationship, because it could have inflamed the situation and definitely did not help.)

rollingonariver · 13/06/2018 20:50

If I just did those things he really is nice a loving.
Abusers are nice to draw you back in, which is clearly what is happening here. What kind of a life is it if you have to follow all these rules, constantly stepping on eggshells around him.
Do not go back to him. He would find something else to be an arsehole about. Think of your life in five years time if you go back now and then think how amazing it would be without him and with a man who doesn't do this.

Lalalandab · 13/06/2018 21:33

I know I probably sound so annoying and I do agree his behaviour has been abusive. However I don't see myself as walking on eggshells Bc I know exactly what topics to avoid- don't question anything about wearing a shawl- don't bring up anything related to "men" and don't talk about religion.

He has now said he will be more understanding about at least being open to conversations but he will need time Bc we have so much baggage (I don't think there is anything wrong with going for dinner wth coworkers in group settings, he won't allow it if men are there, things like that).
As for the kids he is amazing with his nieces and nephews who absolutely adore him so I don't think he would verbally abuse the kids- although I'm not confident he will stop abusing me which is the hesitation.

I guess I just have to be confident in my decision and not wonder if he is really sincere when he says he has realized everything he has done. I just don't want to wonder a year from now while maybe still alone - what if I had just given it one last shot. But I guess therapy will help with that.

OP posts:
Notevilstepmother · 13/06/2018 21:37

He may be sincere but it won’t last I’m afraid. He will be nice until he has you trapped again and then it will be worse.

Run away.

datingdisaster41 · 13/06/2018 21:42

LB2203 - I am so glad you are on here. Your posts are brilliant support for the OP.

I was in a similar situation with my ex. He was less absuive and not as extreme but never the less, he was verbally abusive. He put me down, shouted and called me names. He attacked my personality and eventually I got to the point where I shouted back every time. I also hit out at him once - he jeered at me when I was crying from his aggressive insults and I lost my cool. I was very ashamed of myself and knew I had done wrong but my god he pushed and pushed and pushed me with horrendous abuse. Unfortunately I had children with this man - because again, in between the horrible insults and shouting, there were good times and I loved him. I was 35 when we met. I love my children completely but I wish I had had them with someone else. I left him five years ago. Once he knew I was serious about leaving he signed up for anger management and literally got down on his knees and cried, begging me to stay. He was gentle and calm for several weeks but once he realised I wasn't going to change my mind he reverted to nasty. He then refused to leave the house or relationship and went in to complete denial. He hadn't talked to me for three months (silent treatment was also one of his specialities) and I knew during this time that it was definitely over for me and I no longer loved him.

I've name changed since then quite a few times on here but it was largely through Mumsnet that I realised what he was and that I had to get out of the relationship. Cogito, I remember, and others were incredibly supportive and I really am grateful for the advice and help I got on here. I have not spent one second regretting leaving him and I honestly know 100% that it was the right decision for my children and I. I feel guilty that I had children with him - they love him dearly but they have to split their week up to be in different parents' homes and that's sad but they see much happier, healthier parents now. I am like a different person.

Please, please listen to the advice people have given you on here. Don't go back to him. Don't have children with him.

You were pushed to the point of desperation and you shouted back and hit at him. I bet you will never feel like doing that to anyone else once you get on with a happier life, free of this bullying and horrible man Xx

StringandGlitter · 13/06/2018 21:54

Hi I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I was in similar without the religious aspect. In the end abuse is abuse whatever the reasons.
I too got accused of being aggressive when I snapped after weeks of provocation. It somehow not been aggressive in 19 years since I left him.

He will not change. However you are most at risk when you decide to leave. Get everything lined up and then go. Do not give him the opposite to hurt you. He thinks of you as property, not a person.

This book might help understand why he says he has anger issues only with you. The fact is, he can choose to control it if he is challenged by his boss, father, policeman anyone in authority. He chooses to unleash it on you.

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

Lalalandab · 14/06/2018 08:51

Thank you for the share.

He isn't really begging at all for me to stay he's being very matter of fact about it which again seems different to me than the "textbook" abuses. The last we spoke he has said ok I took a step forward to try and see if it could work by offering therapy, if you don't want to return home and do it, that's fine I respect that. I have made my peace with you by offering and I respect your decision I ask that you not call me anymore and then one of us will end it.

I still just don't have the courage to be the one to pull the trigger for some reason- but also know that if he does it (which he Likely will as we are approaching 6 months of seperation) it will really hurt my ego if he sends the papers.

OP posts:
EmpressOfSpartacus · 14/06/2018 08:58

Lalandab, I remember when all I wanted from my relationship was not to be shouted at.

I couldn't face taking that step, saying "I'm ending it", because I feared my partner's reaction & I thought that if I tried just a bit harder it would be OK.

I ended up severely depressed & suicidal.

Finally, with the help of ADs & therapy, I took that step & ended it, and I only wish I'd managed to do that years earlier.

Don't do this.

bluetrampolines · 15/06/2018 02:06

There is no easy way to say that some people are just horrible.

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