Can you fix a failing marriage?

[Gonzales27]

Does anyone ever manage to turn around a marriage that has hit a real low point?

A friend of mine is considering leaving her husband (they have 2 DC). There has been no catastrophic event , more a build up over years and she has reached breaking point, it's like she's reevaluating her life and isn't sure she loves her husband anymore and feels like there's more out there for her.

To avoid drip feeding, it's one of your classic cliches of the husband being the main wage earner with a hard, time consuming job and the wife managing all aspects of the house and children with the addition of unfulfilling part time work and no time left over for her own life or ambitions.

The husband is a good guy and a good (if often absent) father. She has told him she's had enough and is thinking of separation, he's shocked and hurt but desperate to keep her and has pledged to change.

My DH and I are good friends with them both and both of us have found ourselves comforting/counselling them. I'm really hoping that this is a just a blip and that with a bit of professional help and some radical changes in their lives they can get over this and have a happy life.

I'm just hoping from some real life experiences from the wise people of Mumsnet to help me understand if this is realistic.

(Reposted to the "relationship" topic as I mistakenly put it in "other" topic)

Yes I think it can be turned around (ice seen it happen) but it needs willingness on both sides and possible outside help. Have they tried marriage counselling? I think before I took to step of separating (assuming nothing major like an affair or abuse had happened) that if give every option a shot and if we couldn't do by ourselves i’d get outside help. I think it's good she's let him know how serious things are for her. The fact he's shocked indicates that he hasn't realised how unhappy she is. Perhaps now he will take her concerns seriously and make a conscious effort to fix them?

Some honesty, talking, couples counselling- stop harbouring resentments, reconnecting, rekindling interest and intimacy- changing to meet each other’s needs. Yes all possible- unless she’s had her head turned or he has someone else on the scene. Hope it works out.

In all cases like this, I just wish people would be more empathetic & communicate.

He has no idea what she’s going through & she sounds like she takes him for granted.

Thanks, that's positive!

Yes they are planning couples therapy, the husband is more keen than my friend, who I think is just exhausted and a bit depressed and has just decided that she wants out.

I think it's an illogical knee jerk reaction from her, buts she's so worn down and fed up that she can't think clearly . I've suggested that she also needs therapy on her own to figure out what she wants from life more generally.

I think she may have had other advice from friends (who are separated themselves) that have told her typical romantic stuff like "she needs to follow her heart and do what makes her happy" but I'm much more logical/practical and think that the chaos of separation and the added stress of being a single parent won't allow her to have a happier life. I know that sounds like "settling", but my experience (from a mental health point of view) is that feeling of love for someone can come a go depending on how happy you are with yourself, iyswim!

My husband is doing to me what your friend is doing to her husband. This is my take on things - ignore the religious setting of the article, but in a long term commitment I think people too often have knee-jerk reactions and forget a commitment is far more than that www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/when-i-dont-feel-love-for-my-spouse/

Thanks itsadventure, that article makes so much sense to me (apart from the god stuff at the end which I hate).

I think it's too brutally honest for me to show my friend at the moment but I might try to work up to it, I'm just not sure how receptive her state of mind is at the moment.

To a certain extent I think she has been a victim for the last 10 years, as an individual she has been neglected. not maliciously though. I feel like they just drifted into it through various life circumstances where she has sacrificed the most.

Itsadventure are you and your DH working though it?

At the moment, yes. We are both in individual therapy and we decided we’ll work on getting the spark back. He has said a lot of painful things, but to me giving up on a marriage because he’s bored is not something I’m okay with. I have issues with how my husband treats me too (became super successful at work and me and DC are not treated as a priority anymore), but someone wise said the secret to marriage is that both spouses can’t fall out of love at the same time. So I’ll have enough patience and love for both of us right now, and hope the man I married is still there under this straight up ridiculous mid-life crisis.

I can understand how she feels that after a long period of being the one who sorts everything out, who takes care of everyone else and their feelings, the idea of going to counselling and having to do even more sorting things out and talking about feelings is utterly exhausting to her. Is there anything the DH can do in the meantime that is purely to take some of the drudgery and burden off her, to give her some headspace and time to enjoy something for herself?

It sounds like the DH needs to show his commitment through action - ideally by adjusting his work schedule, even if only temporarily. Easier said than done, I appreciate, but I know people (men as well as women) who have made drastic changes to keep a family and a relationship together.

I think you are right tribot. But you have reassured me that they are doing the right things.

The husband has dramatically reduced his work hours over the last two weeks and is making a huge effort, he even had a completely honest discussion with his boss about the situation which must have been really hard. He has suggested that she goes away for a few nights too.

Understandably she is cynical about how long this new behaviour will last.

Well that's good to hear Gonzales27, I thought you were going to say it was 'impossible' for the DH to do anything about his work situation - amazingly often on MN it appears that men are unable to do anything about their work commitments and yet mysteriously women find ways to make stuff flex around their families, incredible how that happens .

I would imagine that the reduction in work hours is not sustainable long term if that's the culture of the place where he works, but it's a shame she's not seeing it as a genuine, if possibly temporary, effort on his part to enable her to have more time to herself. Presumably his thinking is that if it helps, he may have to find a way to make the change permanent, and if it doesn't, he may as well return to the previous working pattern as alas his time with his children will reduce anyway.

I think if she feels she's had enough then separation/divorce should be seen as a positive option. Try the counselling etc but ime if a relationship has been rubbish for a while it doesn't usually get better.

I split from my ex in similar situation and am much happier now, dating etc. It's hard at first, but I can assure you my mental health is much better than when I was stuck in a failing relationship

They have probably worked hard already tbh, by the time others know it's pretty late stages often.

"MN it appears that men are unable to do anything about their work commitments and yet mysteriously women find ways to make stuff flex around their families, incredible how that happens"

But also on MN the theme is that the only reason men work long hours is to get away from their wives/family, and that compared with looking after house/family paid work is a holiday in comparison. Isn't that simplistic too? Developing a career which pays well does take a huge time commitment and often isn't fun.

But it seems like she's fallen out of love with her husband, not because he's done anything especially wrong. There's no point in staying in a dead marriage I suppose. This is why I'm not a big believer in marriage.

Developing a career which pays well does take a huge time commitment and often isn't fun.
Agreed - I have one of those. And I also have to try and flex it around my family commitments (as well as being a parent, I am a carer to my DH). Fortunately in this case the DH also seems to take both his work and his family commitments seriously and has done what I would have done in similar circumstances, and put his family first.

That said, I do agree with you Scott72 that the wife has fallen out of love, and the situation may be irretrievable.

I hate this "fallen out of love thing" surely love is more complex than just you're in or out?

It makes me so sad that it might be irretrievable, but I still think her life might be worse out rather than in so I'm going to keep encouraging her to give it another chance.

Gonzalez it’s the easiest copout. The one argument everyone thinks can’t be combatted. Poppycock. LTRs take work, and love changes, that’s pure fact. It’s chemistry and common sense. It’s understanding what a commitment means, what familiarity versus the mirage of mystery means, the grind versus no grind - and adapting your expectations accordingly. That’s love in an LTR. It’s respect and care and when the butterflies stop fluttering, the will to make the effort to wake them up - because they are always there since the day you fell for you OH.

@itsadventuretime

I get the feeling we are going through the exact same thing.

My DH on 17 years also seems to be going through MLC, doesn’t think we work, keeps on listing reasons we aren’t compatible, fault finding, not picking, heartbreaking stuff.

We had some separate and some joint counselling (which was dire) separate counselling was helpful for me, DH has moved to a new counsellor. On a mission to live an ‘authentic life’, he moved himself into the spare room 3 months ago. It’s been the hardest 9 months of my life.

fanjolina

Authentic life my behind. This righteous, apologetic poop of “look at me, I’m strong enough to live my truth” is much easier to parade than turn your face back towards the person who was once your world and work together. It is very painful. I hate myself every day for not throwing him out. But I don’t know how much I can bear this behavior - and in my case, I’m 99% there’s greener grass either in his head or in his pants.

Sorry to hear that fanjoli

I have done a lot of reading over the last few months. I particularly found John Gottmans books and Sue Johnston (hold me tight) very helpful reading. The destructive pattern criticism/defence/contempt/stonewalling which John Gottman describes is so applicable to us. When I have tried to talk about this pattern of bevahiour to him before I had even finished the sentence he flipped it back on to me and said ‘well you criticise me too, just last week at the parent interviews you criticised me for clicking my pen’ shitty face. I was gobsmacked. Yes I did ask tell him to stop clicking his pen. That is me bring intolerant but not criticism. Criticism is a global and not specific stack on whole character or personality and awards BLAME. What I am living under the weight of is the you never/you always.

You never want a drink with me
You always choose the same restaurants
You suppress me
You’re always so worried about what other people think
You’re so risk averse

Etc etc etc

We turned our marriage round. There are some issues which remain or we continue to work on. But the rot has been stopped.

@whatwould

What things have helped? Counselling?