Difficult relationship with own mother - anyone else?

[PenelopeChipShop]

Unsure how to boil this down but i’ll try. I’m actually separated from DH but oddly we are co-parenting quite positively compared to the horror of the end of our marriage and i’m doing my best to be positive about life in general and the way we handle the dcs, because I just want the best for them and a nice fresh start for each of us. Clearly it isn’t easy being a single parent and i’m exhausted a lot of the time (kids still v young, 2 under 5) but I feel like i’m slowly turning a corner and coming back to me.

But. I am really feeling dragged down by my mum lately. She is relentlessly negative about almost everything and I’m just struggling to handle it. I love her and she is kind and a lovely Gp to my dc and she helps me a lot - she babysits while I work (I’m freelance so it’s intermittent but regular iyswim) and i’m very grateful for that as working has saved my sanity and also lead to some good opportunities, which I very much need now i’m headed for divorce. So that’s good. But...

She’s very controlling and over-involved. She wants details of every aspect of the dcs lives and will comment on everything. If they have new shoes ‘oh I didn’t know you shopped in that place, I always bought Clark’s for you.’ If the toddler isn’t sleeping well, she’ll ring me and ask how the night was then literally berate me for what she thinks I did wrong. Literally I was on my way into work the other day and she rang and harangued me about the fact that I haven’t taken the side off the cot yet. Like that’s urgent on a random Tuesday morning?! If my ds starts a new activity ‘oh he does so much Penelope, when does he have time to rest’. Trust me he is full of beans and very sporty and loves all his clubs! Or she’ll say ‘oh did you see that article about how dangerous trampolines are’. We have one and they love it.

I just can’t handle the drain of her constant criticism and yet she is a lovely nan to them but I feel she’s too controlling. I can’t bring this up with her bc she takes any criticism completely to heart (ironically, given what I swalllow day after day!) my brother understands what she’s like but he lives further away now and doesn’t get it as much, also he doesn’t have dc for her to obsess over.

It’s as if her favourite hobby is finding fault with everything I do, not just me it’s other people too but honestly I would faint if I heard her say anything positive!!

Sounds awful, and both negativity and constant criticism isn't good for you or DC.
If I could I'd be getting other childcare
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I would read and post also on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages as you will get further advice there too.

It is not your fault your mother is like this, you did not make her that way. BTW where is your dad?. I ask only as he is not at all mentioned in your post.

I would find alternative childcare now and precisely because she is controlling and over involved with your children. She is NOT lovely nor is a lovely nan to them at all. Controlling behaviours are rooted as well in abuse; her behaviours towards you anyway are about power and control. I would also think your mother has no real social life to speak of and certainly no friends (just acquaintances or people she otherwise uses). Your brother has backed off too so that just leaves her with you, her willing audience. She has trained you to be like this with her.

It is of no surprise to me whatsoever that your brother moved away and has little now to do with his mother. Her behaviours are precisely why he has chosen to do that and you will ultimately need to do the same.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and it is likely the case that she has not fundamentally altered since your own childhood. Your boundaries re her are blurred and need urgent adjustment. She is using your children to criticise and otherwise get back at you as a person, daughter and mother

Thank you, I have seen those threads briefly Attila but funnily enough didn’t think they were relevant to me, I thought they were about abusive childhoods....

Funnily enough what has narked her this morning is me saying i’ve been in touch with a nanny agency, as i’ve been offered an ongoing role, it’s a really good opportunity for me, but once again all i’’veheard from her is negativity. ‘Dd will miss you.’ ‘I don’t know why you want to leave them all week, you already have to share them at weekends. You ‘ll never see them.’ (Not true btw as the job is local so i’ll Be home by 6 and also is a 4 day week- not too bad surely!?) ‘how can you consider introducing YET ANOTHER person into their lives, they’ve had so much disruption.’ (I think that is a dig at ex’s new gf, which I have zero control over obviously!!) I mean, how is this supportive of someone who is going through heartbreak and doing their bloody best to support and raise their dc????!!!!

I can’t bring this up with her bc she takes any criticism completely to heart
She needs to take it to heart, though? It's not like she is worried about you taking her criticism to heart...

She isn't treating you like an adult and she thinks she is still in control of your life, as when you were a child.

It is concerning that you're starting to pussyfoot around her to keep the peace.

At the very least I suggest you consistently thank her for her opinions, and suggest she keeps them to herself, as you have your own. She wont like it, and will take offence. At that point you can say that whilst you are grateful for the child care, she is not in control of you or your family. That unless she respects your boundaries you would be better to find child care.,I suspect you will need to in the end, anyway.

She may not realise what she's doing, or alternatively be taking out a bit of bitterness on you ... having trouble letting go, really, now -you- are the mum and not her.

Is she the sort of mum you can talk to honestly? say that this is happening and that you love her, but that this is putting a real strain on yoru relationship? Some people might get upset and then acknowledge they've gone too far (my MIL is like, she goes too far and then you have to speak to her, but she always comes round after a few days .... very glad to have her in the kids' lives!)

If she's likely to take the hump or to not change at all, your best bet is quietly to work towards alternate childcare, I'm sorry to say. But controlling grandparents aren't particularly a good thing - children must have space to breath!

It’s so complicated because the children love her (and I do!) and I honestly don’t want to ‘go NC’ as gets bandied about on here... i’ve lost my DH and by extension some of the extended family and I don’t want any more loss in my life.

But at the same time I feel the control she wants isn’t healthy. And I think it’s about her, not me - yes i’m Going through a hard time right now, but i’m coping - I don’t need her to fix me, nor have I given any indication that I want her to.

But I think she’s almost enjoying the fact that I am on my own, if that doesn’t sound mad?! When I was little she wasn’t one to encourage friendships particularly, it was always ‘family first’ and I don’t think that was necessarily the best idea. That’s how I feel again now, with her instantly rubbishing the idea of a nanny, any nanny (or nursery - really I think she thinks I should be a Sahm but she knows I don’t want that) - she doesn’t want any ‘outside influence’ on the dc, i think. Which feels controlling. Childcare help would enable me to take a good, local opportunity, support the dc, comtinue my own life, without being 100% reliant on her and then feeling that I can’t ask her to sit in the evening for example if i want to go out, bc she will have done a lot already. The more I think about this the more I feel her help is completely rooted in wanting control in my life. But I’m not sure she even consciously realises it. It’s so tricky to tackle!

From what you write, it sounds like she really does need to be in control yes. Often that is rooted in needing to feel safe, though not always. But it can become oppressive and when that happens you -need- to be able to get some air into the situation.

It is tricky to tackle but "if you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got". She is not going to change unless you create the circumstances where she has to change, iyswim.

I suspect here the best thing is to think what's best for your children, and that is NOT being controlled and not have friendships discouraged. You can push back, and weather the storms, possibly rooted in her insecurity and possibly not, and create enough space for you and your children to breathe in.

The key is when talking to her to remain calm, to accept that -she- will be unhappy for a while (instead of you!), to set limits and to reassure her by your actions that you value her, such as making sure she sees her GC very regularly and asking for her help when you need it to go out or whatever, but to stay strong and not let her endlessly try to take over as she is now.

Sounds like my DM, I moved to the other side of the world!

But seriously, on my trips back to visit I would stay for 4-5 weeks at a time, and by golly she would drive me mad. One particularly horrid memory was when DS1 was under a year old, and she kept on and on and on and on.... with the 'helpful' suggestions and criticisms. In the end I blew up and yelled 'I have managed to keep DS alive for the past 7 months thank you very much. I don't NEED all the advice.'

Wow, she totally blew up at that point. We had it out though, and I pointed out that although I did things differently to how she would, that did NOT mean that I was doing them wrong, and she had no right to say otherwise. There was a lot of upset for awhile, but I've put in firm boundaries and oddly enough in some ways my relationship with her is better than my DSisters'.

But, I had to be very firm whenever she oversteps the boundaries, because she will keep trying. Give her an inch and she will take a mile.

By the sounds of your DM, it is unlikely that she would cut you off if you got firm with her. She will be hurt, she will carry on, she will act as though you are the most ungrateful creature that ever walked the earth. But.... she will NOT want to lose either her grandchildren or her daughter. It might take time, but she will come around. But ONLY if you stop pandering to her and stop allowing her to be hurtful to you.

Mine is the same.. even when DC were young and I would make (say scrambled egg) she would say ughhh and make something else. I never stood up to her. When I met dh and went away for a fee days she took a massive fall out on the concrete and on the night of my hen had to go to a&e for what turned out to be constipation. Ok they may be genuine but it is every special occasion

Anyway I have massively pulled away from her. Very busy in work. Visit every seven to ten days instead of the three times or so literally tell her nothing

I have been called a disgrace. Selfish. Mad. I don't care at all. She has bad mouthed me to aunts uncles etc but I think they know the true her anyway.

The trouble is if she looks after your children then it gives her permission (in her eyes to at least ) to have an opinion on how you raise them.
My mum was the same with my brothers kids who she provided child care for whereas i lived away and had no support.
If she expressed a negative comment to me about my children or lifestyle my reply was that they were my kids , me and dh supported them and looked after them and didnt ask anyone for anything and therefore neither her ( or anyone else for that matter ) was entitled to have an opinion on the way we did it ( or the right to express it anyway ).
You are in a v hard position as you need her support and she is going to resist any outside influences because it will , as you rightly say , undermine her control. She is definitely still treating you as a child and i would do all i could to avoid relying on her as much as possible but i can appreciate that is going to be difficult for you to do.

My dm is like this in many ways. Sometimes she can be relentless, especially if it's just me her and dcs together. I avoid going to her house without my dp as it's downright depressing. She criticises everything from clothes to hair to behaviours or dcs, via my choices rather than criticising them directly. She is often outright awful about me and now I look and my values and choices but I don't think much of her values at times or her clothes at all so am fine with not looking or being how she wants me to!
Over the years I have realised she doesn't see me as a proper adult. She acts like she thinks I am unable to do things, or that all the things I do are not made with an adult brain, so fully open for criticism. I am a very independent and capable person and I know she does know this, but it's like she almost doesn't believe it or can't admit it in front of me so carries on treating me like I cannot possibly be trusted to make decisions, so any i have made are likely to be terrible and she must point this out.
This sounds like I have an awful relationship with her but actually it can be ok. We get in well mostly and I know she absolutely does care and would always be there for me. The bad stuff, I ignore a lot, sometimes absorbing it internally, though I do also confront which usually triggers up to months of cold closed behaviour. But still, I do love her and she loves me and this disfunction is a part of it. I don't rely on her (as much as she does try to get me to at times) nor do I have to live with her so it's manageable.
So, my only advice is to insert some distance between you. Physical and other. That is, find additional childcare but she can maybe still do some. Spend a little less time with her. Don't be where she is so much x

Wow there are some really thoughtful responses, thank you. SeaEagle that is great advice actually. I think I need to set the boundaries, stop sharing insecurities with her (as she feeds off them and sort of whisk herself up into a ranty frenzy) and actually, maybe say outright that I don’t want to hear her negative thoughts about my decisions. It’s a bit sad really as we are close and I don’t want to hold things back from her necessarily, but the response I get to any element of doubt I express is so out of proportion that it’s dragging me down.

Foxpox it sounds like your relationship with your mum is v similar to mine! Is so complicated isn’t it! And it’s weird that you can still have a good relationship with them but parts of it are just discunxtional!

My exFIL treats his son like a rather stupid child, and I used to get treated the same way by extension. Put up with it for 20 years, then his son had an affair and I was so pissed off that I started answering FIL back very rudely honestly. Amazingly, he immediately stepped back behind the boundaries I'd set and we have got on much, much better ever since.

After that nice experience I thought maybe I should try speaking to my own mother more honestly. Like OverTheHedge, I moved away and see her once a year at most, but I thought just maybe it might work like with exFIL and we might get on better. However, knowing her I wasn't that hopeful, and indeed it didn't work. She was rude to me, but when I resisted she turned it round so that I was attacking her and she was the poor victim. When I left to go back abroad she refused to say goodbye to me. That really confirmed to me that the best route for me is to stay distant. I apologised for offending her (she accepted this nonsense gracefully :D) and now contact her even less than before. We get on best on the phone, so that's probably the best way to interact with her.

I think that growing up, we kids learned to just stay out the way and keep quiet when she was "in a mood", as otherwise you might get hit, so carried on doing that into adulthood, just trying to avoid the worst-case scenario of annoying her. But actually it was worth initiating the worst-case scenario, even if it didn't work, as a) it could have worked and b) it wasn't actually the end of the world after all, so I know I don't absolutely have to kill myself trying to keep her happy. And getting in the habit of never talking back is no good for you with dealing with normal people.