So angry with suicidal BIL- AIBU? (Trigger warning)

[ProbablyInTheWrong]

I was very close to my younger sister and her husband, “L”. She has been in a relationship with him for 20 years since she was a 16 yo.

We’ve always got on well but there have been occasions where “L” has treated my sister badly in the past. I find him to be financially controlling and he seems to put his wants first all the time. He’s also been verbally abusive to her in the past when drunk- my DH and I were sharing a holiday cottage with them and he came home drunk after a huge bender and overheard him give a her tirade of abuse for about half an hour before he passed out. I was furious with him but agreed to put it behind me for the sake of my sister, who loves him very much.

Anyway, four years ago, after TTC for a long time (Dsis has fertility problems) they gave birth to a stillborn DS. It was devastating. I was there for them at the hospital and washed DN for them so they could hold him. They received counselling but obviously you never get over it.

Then 1 year ago DSis got pregnant again. “L” was not handling her pregnancy well and began to distance himself from her. She ended up having a late miscarriage at 19 weeks- their DD had Downs Syndrome. After the MC my DSis got sepsis and nearly died, and was involved in a car accident after she went looking for her DH after he ran out of the house threatening suicide.

Then just after late DN’s birthday, “L” sent out a suicide note on WhatsApp first thing in the morning on a Saturday. I got the message and went round to their house, broke in as there was no answer and found him. He’d attempted suicide whilst my DSis was asleep upstairs. In the time it took for us to get an ambulance out and get him sectioned he attempted to harm himself 3 more times- I had to physically fight him to stop him at one point. He kept saying he wanted to die and told my DSis he was in love with a younger woman who he worked with.

I know this is long, but anyway- my DSis is no longer speaking to me because I am furious with L for putting her through all of that, and for the trauma he put me through. He hasn’t made an attempt to contact me to talk about it (I’m open to a conversation and reconciliation if he made the first move). I love and miss my DSis so much but I feel like her DH has treated her appallingly, which is why I am so angry- I feel like I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt on so many occasions and this is the last straw. I know he’s bereaved and mentally very unwell, but so is she and he has made everything so much worse for her. Now DSis is furious at me because I haven’t forgiven and forgotten. A petty part of me is also angry at how ungrateful they have been because if I hadn’t got to him in time he’d have probably died.

I guess what I’m asking is how do I get over my anger with him? I badly want a relationship with my sister and I feel like I’ve betrayed her by holding on to my anger.

I think having had experience that you maybe take a step back for the minute. Just leave them to get on with it letting your sister know that you are there for her if she needs you.

That's realistically all you can do. You can't help him as he doesn't sound as if he's ready to accept help yet.

Block him so he can't message you again.

Why are you angry with someone who was so low that they thought they would be better off dead? I think this is the starting point to try and resolve the complex emotions you are experience at the minute

It does sound like a very difficult situation for your sister, but it does rather read as if you're angry with him for attempting suicide.

I have limited experience of it, but feel that it's unusual to be so angry with someone who is both mentally ill and desperately sad.

You reference the fact that you washed their stillborn baby, and saved your bil's life, as if they should be grateful or at least tolerate your anger.

They are clearly struggling and suffering very much. Your sister loves him and wants to continue in her marriage. I think all you can do is distance yourself if it's upsetting you, be non judgemental in your interactions, and let her know that you'll be there whenever she needs you. But I think you'll wait a long time for an apology. For what? Being depressed and attempting suicide?

From someone who recently tried to kill themself sorry to be blunt but your attitude to be wanting an apology from someone who has just done the same thing just is all wrong. This attitude to people being at such a low point they actually feel they need to end it is why people such as myself can't/won't talk to their family about what in my case i tried to do. I have lied to my love ones as to why i was in hospital and why i almost went into liver failure. Why am i keeping it to myself because they too would angry and not offer support which ulyimatley is what people such as myself and your brother in law need. Not judgement and anger directed at us. Just think on that for a bit.

This all sounds very stressful for you OP but I do think your anger with L is misplaced. Have you thought about asking your GP for counselling yourself? It sounds like a complicated situation - I think you need to give them some space to work through things as best they can

I'm sorry that you went through such a traumatic experience. However the way you wrote this sounds like you are angry at him more for trying to kill himself than the way he treats your sister; it is impossible for you to understand the pain he must have been feeling at the time to make him lose his will to live, so please try not to be angry at him for that. Also, it is not his fault that your sister was in a car accident just because she was looking for him at the time(it comes across that you resent him for that, sorry if I'm mistaken).

Well I would be fucking angry if I were you. There is nothing wrong with being angry at someone in a circumstance like this. He’s treated your sister appallingly.
But you will have to try and at least show that you forgive him for her sake. You don’t need to mean it, you just need to be there for her and don’t let her be more isolated.
I think you’re clearly angry at the way he has handled everything which ended up with this suicide bid.
I think people who say you need to be more understanding of someone who’s tried to take their own life aren’t seeing the fuller picture.
He’s abusive, unsupportive and pretty fucking horrible. If the suicide attempt hasn’t happened those things would still exist.
Just because someone has tried to kill themselves doesn’t mean their no longer a fucking twat

He hasn’t made an attempt to contact me to talk about it
He is so depressed as to be suicidal; of course he doesn't want to contact or talk to people.

I know he’s bereaved and mentally very unwell, but so is she and he has made everything so much worse for her
In his mental state he probably thought he was doing her a favour, or that she wouldn't be that bothered about losing him.

He's suicidal; he is not well enough to reason or even think about the things that concern you. He wants to die. That's going to overrde any concerns about what his in-laws think.

As someone else said, maybe you need to talk to someone too. While you are there, perhaps you could ask for some advice about how to deal with someone who does not want to live.

...how ungrateful they have been because if I hadn’t got to him in time he’d have probably died
He wanted to die. At that moment, and maybe still now, he'd have been grateful if you'd let him die.

I think your anger is normal. It is terrible that L felt that low. However, given everything you've said (esp abuse towards your sister, and the emotion you must have felt when discovering the suicide attempt), I think it's totally human that you're angry with him.
I agree with PP that it might be best to keep some distance till your own feelings subside. If you can, perhaps let your sister know you're there for her if she wants you.
All the best.

It is common to be angry with people who have tried to commit suicide (including those that achieve it). I think that’s a very usual reaction.

TBH you can’t do anything about her or him. Presumably she knows you are there for her if she chooses. You can’t do anything about his mental health. He has to take the responsibility to work on it if he chooses. It is sad when people are that unwell, but you can’t fix them.

The day you found him sounds totally traumatic for you. (And yes for everyone else, but you can’t do anything about your sister and BIL). If I were you I would look at getting some counselling about the whole situation. It is surprising how much a few traumatic hours can damage us. I had a few traumatic hours last September and really need to go and get some counselling or something - it keeps catching up with me in surprising places.

If you get the support you need from someone else you may find you can distance yourself from your feelings about your BIL.

Get your head out your arse and show some compassion.

It's not all about you.

I was recently blocked by someone I ‘saved’ from suicide btw OP (actually I didn’t save her at all as the emergency services were already aware, but had they not been it would have been me alerting them - presumably she feels I interfered anyway). TBH I’m relieved not to have the responsibility of feeling I have to keep an eye on her anymore.

Just let your sister know your door is always open. She sounds as if she has been through hell, but you can’t make that better

Op, you sound a great sister. You’ve all been through really traumatising times.
You must be completely overwhelmed, take some time out and mind yourself for a while, you probably have your own grief about your DNs that you put aside for your sister and possibly a semblance of ptsd from finding you bil. This is all hijacking you emotionally and it’s coming out as anger.
People telling you off for being angry and not having compassion is horrible. You seem to be a good person in an overwhelming situation.
Maybe text your sis, tell her you love her and are reacting traumatically to finding her husband so you’re going to give them some space for a while. Tell her you’re always there for her.
Maybe find a counsellor to talk it out for a few sessions

Thank you all for your responses so far, I value all of them very much and it has given me a lot of food for thought so far.

@fruitcider I don’t think I’d be angry about the attempted suicide at all if he hadn’t been abusive to her in the past. And it wasn’t just the fact he’d tried to kill himself- he’d also been obsessing over his colleague whilst Dsis was going through her 2nd pregnancy. She was sufficiently suspicious and upset by his relationship with this woman that she asked him to stop texting her all the time- which he ignored.

@RainySeptember
You reference the fact that you washed their stillborn baby, and saved your bil's life, as if they should be grateful or at least tolerate your anger.

It’s not that, although I appreciate that it has come across that way. It’s more that I feel like my DSis doesn’t see that I’m angry because I love her and don’t want her to have to go through more tragedy, which I’ve been witness to first hand. I also feel that I’ve been written off as a bitch for having an emotional response for what was, for me personally, a very traumatic, frightening experience. I’m scared of her DH now, because he has been abusive in the past and I am afraid he might harm her. He has form for physical violence (not against her). I’m also afraid of going into their house after what I saw in there.

@Olikingcharles
I am so sorry for what you have been through. I hope that you are able to get more help and support. I know that my anger is unhelpful to everyone. As I said, I really don’t think I’d be this angry if it hadn’t been for his abuse in the past. I feel like this is one more thing on a continuum of abusive behaviour he’s meted out on her, which I know probably isn’t fair.

@CuttedUpPears
I haven’t yet explored counselling for myself, but I think that it may be necessary as I am having flashbacks and nightmares. I cry about this every couple of days. My anger is very much part of my fear response, I think.

@TacoLover
I do blame him for my Dsis’s car accident. He took and she had a panic attack behind the wheel trying to find him.

@eightfacesofthemoon
He’s abusive, unsupportive and pretty fucking horrible. If the suicide attempt hasn’t happened those things would still exist.

This is pretty much my POV at the moment. I don’t trust him to have her best interests at heart or put her needs before his own for once. I know this isn’t fair, but I saw the attempted suicide as way for him to put his pain before her own.

@ravenmum
Intellectually, and objectively, I know that he was not in his right mind and was in an extraordinary amount of pain and despair. But emotionally I’m finding it very hard to deal with.

Of course you're finding it very hard to deal with; it's all absolute crap and would give anyone nightmares. Your anger might well be a way of channelling all the emotions. Talk to someone with training.

Give your sister time; maybe she too needs someone to be angry with.

Why isn't your bil in hospital under medical treatment as l agree with you he is a risk to your sister while he is in this state? I understand your anger even though you and l know he was mentally unwell it was still extremely traumatic for you.
But it is the same as if your dsis was married to a dreadful alcohol you would need to step back and let them sort it. As long as she knows you are there for her there is not much you can do.
Do get some counselling as what you have been through is having a big impact on you.
Its very difficult to talk about suicide as its so close to the bone for a lot of people.

It is natural to find this kind of thing hard to deal with, it's a horrible set of circumstances. It is also natural for you to feel particularly protective of your sister.

You must remember that this is their shit to deal with primarily, not yours. They are struggling and for him to be suicidal he is obviously in a very dark place and unable to think outside his own problems. Don't make your anger their problem. Don't make your sister have to deal with that as well. She needs you, but not your opinions or emotional needs. That can wait.

The best thing you can do is get your own anger and sadness dealt with independently. Get strong and follow your sister's lead on this.

I think the op has come on here because she doesn’t want to burden them.
If someone had been this abusive to someone I loved I would fucking hate them. Hate what they inflicted.
And op you’ve been there to pick up the pieces and protect you dsis
I think you’re a fucking star. Stick with your sister no matter what. But do get help for yourself. You’ve been through huge trauma. Which I fear others will minimise x

@understampable I am trying to keep in touch but she doesn’t seem to really want to respond to me. We haven’t seen each other as much as we used to since her first child died because I have 3 young DC of my own and, understandably, she can’t bring herself to be around little kids. One of mine is very close in age to wat DN would be now if he’d lived.

@Devilishpyjamas I’m sorry you’ve been through a similar situation. . I think that I am very much a “fixer” and want to stop my DSis from suffering any more. One of the things I am feeling so cut u about is that I feel helpless- there’s nothing I can do.

@DileenODoubts Thank you, you have been so kind. I think about my DNS every day- especially the oldest, because I got to see him and have photographs. They named their DS and DD after plants so when I see the tree and flower they’re named after when I’m out in the country I get a bit teary. I am trying to plough my grief for them into fundraising, so at least it feels productive. DSis and BIL’s grief is excruciating to watch- I would not wish the pain they are in on my worst enemy. They still have DN’s room all set up, waiting for him to come back from the hospital.

@junebirthdaygirl He was sectioned for 5 days, after which time the mental health team decided he was no longer a danger to himself and released him back into the community. The mental health team were popping to see them every few days but not sure if that’s still happening. I’ve heard it through the family grapevine that they’ve been seeing a counsellor for I don’t know if they still are or not. They had counselling after DN’s death but eventually DSis decided she didn’t want to keep talking about it and they stopped.

@50shadesofgreyismylaundry I think you’re right. I can’t make my anger her problem, but can’t fix my thinking on my own.

@eightfacesofthemoon You’re right, I don’t want to burden them. The suicide attempt happened some months ago, and I’ve been debating posting about it on here since then and have just kept it inside.

A lot of people on this thread have suggested counselling and I think that is something I need to explore. has anyone had any previous experience of finding a counsellor in the UK who deals with grief and trauma? I’m not really sure how best to look for one. If I do see one I think it will have to be privately as I doubt I’d get a referral from my GP and even if I did, I wouldn’t want to wait- I’ve already been holding on to this for too long.

It's easy for people on this thread to tell you that your anger is wrong, because in our society we seem to forget all about a person's bad behaviour if they attempt suicide afterwards! Abusers know this and this is one of the ways they use suicidal behaviour to coercively control. After all, you can't call out someone on their bad behaviour if they want to die, right?

My dad was a physically and mentally abusive alcoholic who made my childhood a misery. Once I was a teenager I realised how we had to live was wrong and I began to call him out on his abuse and encourage my mum to leave him. When she finally filed for divorce he timed a suicide attempt for when I returned home from college aged 17. It was extremely traumatic and he was very drunk and aggressive. He made me witness him taking the overdose while I flapped around in hysterics calling 999. I only recently found out that i have PTSD from this event 18 years ago (lifelong intrusive thoughts, anxiety disorder, self harm, using booze as a crutch, stress related skin disorder) unfortunately neither parent thought to get me any sort of counselling help at the time.

While he was sectioned following this suicide attempt, he met a new lady in the psychiatric hospital and moved himself into her council flat. He promised me he had given up the drink and I just wanted to believe that he was 'better' now, I was a teenager and I didn't know about the cycle of abuse.

The lady was very vulnerable and of course it emerged after 8 years that he was mentally and physically abusing her too, and with her family's (and my) support she tried to kick him out. Cue another suicide attempt from my father, cue me having to pick up the pieces yet again (this time I had a toddler, had just lost MIL to cancer and had a stepchild who had just been diagnosed with leukaemia). Cue a massive trigger of all my PTSD symptoms.

I have actually gone NC with my dad in recent times because he likes to threaten suicide whenever he's not getting his own way. He knows it's a surefire way to control me. The final straw was when he threatened in earshot of my children, and I just flashed back to the suicide attempts, but with my kids finding him instead of me.

I'm sorry, but I'm fucking angry at my father's suicide attempts. Don't care if anyone here decides that I'm 'all about me'. If your BIL is an abuser, like you have mentioned then you have a right to be angry too. Abusers use this as a tool to control, and become untouchable!

Sorry for the rant.

I've had EMDR therapy which is effective for trauma. It works very quickly too.

Zebrano l hear what you are saying as it is common for abusive to up the anti by threatening suicide if they don't get their own way or spmeone is about to leave them. There is a thin line between being supportive and being sucked into a crazy situation. It is good more people are talking about mental health and suicide but we nerd to be aware it can be used as a weapon too.