Is this abusive (different thread)

[squishy]

I have a friend (really, it's not me ) who, let's say, was a SAHM - gave up a career, not one she was thrilled with, but one that had progression opportunities. Over years, her and DP drifted apart but she loved caring for her children. She described her DP as intimidating at times, creating a hostile environment and would make very unkind comments (in front of the children, often) about how useless she was; that he'd divorce her and she'd end up homeless; how she sounded disgusting when she eats and drinks. If he decided he wanted to cook at the weekends, he'd send her out of the kitchen because she 'got in the way'. He refused to do anything on Saturday evenings and Sundays because it was 'family time' (and didn't let her go anywhere either - even to see her Mum who lives some distance away; and he'd never agree to going to visit MIL either because she didn't like her) - although they didn't do anything special or together during this family time.

My friend is struggling to agree this was abusive, but I'm adamant it was. Thoughts? (relationship has been over a couple of years now, but the history and issues it caused are still ongoing)

Then, if I added the 'reveal', that my friend is a man who was a SAHD (so the rest of the genders can be swapped), that doesn't change anything, surely?

Yes it was abusive and nope gender is irrelevant

I'm not sure. I tend to think abusive is a bit overused on here and that you can make anyone sound abusive by listing everything they ever did wrong.

So she could be intimidating at times, made critical comments at times, complained about his table manners and insisted on weekend family time?

I'm guessing she'd have a list of things he did 'wrong' too of course.

On balance, not abusive imo.

Thanks both.

Rainy - I guess you're right, I complained about my ex's table manners, but would say 'please could you chew with your mouth closed' etc (the noises he made disgusted me and I have low tolerance for this - I've eaten with my friend in the original post and don't get twitchy) - I'd never declare he was disgusting and tell him to leave the room.

You're right, no one is all good, or all bad, but these comments and behaviours, when prolonged over years damage esteem.

(I also insisted on family time with my family, but ex was never prepared to do anything, so we just did it without him - staying at home chilling in the house - all day and every weekend isn't my idea of family time (although it is my preteen's idea, from time to time - now!)

Anyone can cherrypick comments over a long relationship to make it sound abusive.Some people are rigid about routines and make harsh comments at times, I think intent and taking responsibility is important.Also how you react when you know your partner is upset.It's not unreasonable to ask your partner to have family time, it's unreasonable/abusive to sulk, stone wall or punish if they choose to do it.

Kindness is important in a marriage but we are human so everyone slips at times.

Why is it important to you? If he has got out of the situation, understands red flags and knows his boundaries then he doesn't need to look back.

Ex would say I was abusive and controlling because he didn't get to solely choose a picture for the house.What he doesn't tell people is that he chose every other picture and when I finally decided to have a say he called it controlling.
Abuse is about power so if you follow the power you will see if the relationship had balance.

Abuse is about power so if you follow the power you will see if the relationship had balance.

This a hundred times.

It's also the reason why you cant "just swap the genders" as the man will usually have a great power advantage becuase of his size, strength (even if never used against the woman), louder more booming voice, all the advantages society gives him in terms of employment opportunities and chances to see himself in a positive light.

lifebegins it's important to me because he got out for other reasons and doesn't recognise the impact on his current sense of esteem and worth that 6+ years of constant critical comments; derisory tones and belittling behaviour (not to mention feeling he wasn't allowed to have contact or social time with his family or friends) has had. His Mum has said (since the split, I have no idea why there was little intervention beforehand - I suspect for the same reasons my friends and family didn't really let me know what they thought of my relationship until I got out) that it's almost criminal what has been done to his sense of self. So I don't know that red flags can be recognised as well if you don't understand the significance of them. And I'm concerned, as I would be for any female friend who had low self esteem, worth and confidence.

blackteasplease I get what you're saying - in my relationship, you couldn't have swapped the genders because my ex was huge compared to me, with a volatile temper and history of throwing/punching things. In this instance, however, they are similar in size and stature - in fact, he's a waif of a thing and she's far more my rugby-like figure (only about a foot taller than me - I'd take him on, no way would I take her on!!) and he avoids conflict like the plague whereas she uses attack as her first approach rather than last approach.

You're also right, I've seen it written before (possibly on MN) that there are 3 sides to every story - his, hers and the truth and I know my ex wouldn't recognise my side, but that is my truth and how I was feeling. But at least I recognised that some of the factors within my relationship were abusive - although I had the power (the job, the salary, the decision making); he stonewalled me; excluded me; exploited me in other ways. And because I recognised it was abusive (and it was hard to recognise), it helped me process and move on

I tend to think he lived it, doesn't recognise it as abusive and is six years out of it anyway.

You have obviously spoken to him about it, so asking for advice here too seems like overkill to me.

It could be said that you are displaying some overbearing tendencies here yourself.

Why are you so certain it was abusive, so certain he needs to accept that fact?

Maybe he doesn't want to see himself as an abused person. Maybe his self esteem would suffer even more if he confronted that fact. Maybe he looks at her behaviour with the additional knowledge of his own behaviour at that time.

Thanks Rainy - bit overbearing yourself in that post . He's been out of it for 6 months, he lived it for over 6 years. It's still very raw. I'm quite comfortable with my involvement, but thanks you for your concern.

I had kept my trap shut with any judgement on what he went through until last night, when he talked to me about a counselling session where he touched on his ex's current behaviour, the counsellor labelled it as abusive and that sat uncomfortably with him because he thought it was an unkind way to think of the ex.

But, having listened for some time (over the years), it had occured to me that (certainly if he was a SAHM saying the same stuff) I considered her persistent treatment of him as abusive (yes, I know it's overused and used to teach childhood abuse but remember very clearly about the long lasting impact of cold and critical treatment). So I asked - in all good faith - for some opinions