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Original poster

Taking kids away

23 replies

Confusicated · 20/05/2018 20:11

Not sure if this is the right place for this but after some advice please.

Recently separated, two kids. My wife has taken the kids with her and despite what social services etc say about “shared, regular and routine contact” she has had way more access to the kids than I have. It’s all with lawyers at the moment.

Next week she wants to take the kids away for a full week (same country, but hundreds of miles from home) and if she does I won’t see the children at all for over a week. Its half term so I am off work and had planned to spend time with them.

At the moment there are no court orders and we have joint parental responsibility. Surely she can’t just take them away without even asking?

OP posts:

VioletCharlotte · 20/05/2018 20:20

I think you should try and look at it from the perspective of your kids. They're going to go on holiday and (presumably) have a lovely time. Can you be happy for them? If you can be flexible with your ex around contact, hopefully she'll reciprocate. Maybe you could take them away for a week in the summer holidays?

Quartz2208 · 20/05/2018 20:23

Violetcharlotte is right - focus on the kids and what is best for them - which is two parents cooperating and in my personal opinion a parent who is resident

I would go for EOW and one/two nights a week and let them go on holiday as I assume you would want to do the same

Original poster

Confusicated · 20/05/2018 20:30

Not sure the responses would be the same if the mum/dad part was reversed but ok, I will just let her get away with dictating everything to do with the kids and continue to go against legal and social services advice re regular, routine, and consisten access to be 50/50 to both parents

OP posts:

Picklepickle123 · 20/05/2018 20:32

I think you're confusing the two issues. One is that she isn't allowing regular access - which you are entitled to and the kids deserve to have. The other is that she is taking them away on holiday - the kids deserve a break and so does she. 50/50 access doesn't mean the children can't have a holiday for a week.

Ploppymoodypants · 20/05/2018 20:38

Actually I thought most recent research has been that 50/50 isn’t what is best for the children. That’s now quite old fashioned as I understand although some family courts and social services are taking time to catch up. What is best is a stable default home and consistent regular contact with the other parent. Regardless of whether the resident parent is the mum or dad. (A lot of dads seem to think the family courts are biased towards the mums which is completely untrue. You only need read some of the domestic abuse boards to know that).

What is deemed most damaging is parents who are unable to be amicable and put their children’s needs first.

I absolutely sympathise and I would be bereft at not seeing my children for a whole week. But I guess if I decided to separate from their dad, then that would be a reality even if I was the resident parent as he would want half the holidays and to take them abroad etc. Unfortunately it’s the reality of a relationship breakdown. It sucks. It’s partky why DH and I decided to stick it out during a v tough period rather than separate. I appreciate you don’t always get a choice though.

pog100 · 20/05/2018 20:39

You haven't really explained what isn't regular or routine about the present arrangements but in the case of the half term it's pretty clear that from a kid's point of view a whole week away is going to be better than splitting it for the sake of one parent. I think this is the same for either parent, there are many posts from mothers suffering when their kids are away all week. Of course, it reasonable that you also get equal chances for one week holidays with them.

VioletCharlotte · 20/05/2018 20:40

Your update sounded quite agressive. 'She's dictating when I can see the kids' is a red flag to me I'm afraid. Why are social services involved?

duchessofsussex · 20/05/2018 20:42

Why are you separating? It seems strange that SS would be involved in a normal break up.

seventh · 20/05/2018 20:48

Wow

You sound aggressive and angry

She's taking them on holiday. They'll have a nice time. Surely you're happy for them?

Also my understanding is that 50/50 isn't advised any more as it's too disruptive for the children

This IS about the best thing for your children isn't it?

PrizeOik · 20/05/2018 20:49

It is awful not to see them for a week op, I get that.

It is one of the realities of shared parenting though. I'm a mum and I've had to wave goodbye to my DC when they holiday with their df. It's not nice for me, but they have fun and love their df.

One word of advice, my ex has been sulky and arsey about me holidaying with DC or having plans for special days (e.g. bonfire night) when, with a week to go, he suddenly wants to take them to an event etc. And I say no.

The issue is though that I'm a planner and will have likely made plans three months before, bought tickets, booked transport etc. Whereas he tends to assume that he can just decide the week of and I'll tell him yes and break my plans. Then he gets upset that I won't "let" him have special times with them.

But what's really happened is he feels entitled to me simply changing to fit his needs. That's not on. If he wants special times he needs to speak up early and plan ahead.

In future, if half term is coming up, get in their early next time. Book time with the kids, ask what she has planned and suggest your own plans, make your expectations clear to your ex. Be proactive.

kissthealderman · 20/05/2018 20:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Worlds0kayestmum · 20/05/2018 20:57

Are you planning to never take a holiday with your kids? Do you expect them to miss out on these experiences so they can follow a strict 50/50 schedule?
It's really hard, especially the first time but things like a week's holiday you really need to consider from the children's perspective. They won't thank you for sending denying them these opportunities and experiences

Daydreamer2407 · 20/05/2018 21:22

So your children can never go on holiday again as parents will just argue it's taking their days? You need to be a bit more flexible and prioritise your children's needs not some competition with the ex

BitchQueen90 · 20/05/2018 21:29

You should keep fighting for the contact that you would like but I don't understand why you'd begrudge your kids a holiday. I am divorced and my exh doesn't bat an eyelid when I take DS on holidays. He is also taking DS away in the summer holidays which I also have no issue with.

TheClitterati · 20/05/2018 21:35

Don't you think your dc deserve and would enjoy a weeks holiday op?

It's not all about you. Think of your kids. Take them away for a week yourself sometime. Perhaps cancel your time off work so you can keep your holiday for another time.

TheClitterati · 20/05/2018 21:37

And your X isn't "taking kids away" from you. But doing a perfectly normal thing and having a week away. Like people do.

notagain2018 · 20/05/2018 21:46

Hi OP, it sounds like this has happened very recently and its all still raw for you. This can cloud our judgement. I'm not sure why SS are involved and that might help explain a bit more.
However, the other replies are right. You will have to let go of the kids from time to time for longer than you would like. Its hard, I know. Hopefully when the bitterness of the split eases, you will start to accept it.
As for her just taking them away without asking you, yes it might seem selfish she didn't tell you and run it past you but you would be hurting the kids if you tried to put a stop to it. Try to be the bigger person and simply ask her if, in future, she could just run things past you if she is thinking of taking the kids away in a time when you would expect access.
I hope things get sorted. Its a shame its going to court as the only winners are the lawyers pockets. I assume you've already tried mediation?
Hopefully in time you will both agree to be more amicable for the DC sake.

Doyoumind · 20/05/2018 22:07

If it's with the lawyers, hasn't the situation been explained to you?

If it goes to court, contact will be decided based only on what's seen as best for the children. It's a possibility your ex will be the resident parent and you will have contact EOW and one or two nights during the week. Holidays will likely be shared but that could mean one half term with their mother and the next with you. What actually gets decided, should the courts have to decide, will be based on what the children are used to, what they want if they are old enough to have a viewpoint, and any other information about your relationship with the children or the ex that might be relevant.

As previous posters have stated, being separated from them for a week is going to become normal. It could even be 2 weeks. You should, however, also get extended periods with them.

In the absence of an agreement or a court order, your ex is quite entitled to take the children away. Don't deny them a holiday next week because of what's happened between you and your ex.

How old are the children?

Changedname3456 · 21/05/2018 08:12

I think it’s reasonable enough for the OP to be upset if he’d made plans and taken time off for the half term and had told the ex - did she know you’d made plans OP?

My situation is likely to be a lot more complicated than yours but the court ended up dictating “half” the holidays each but didn’t specify how that would be split - that’s up to the ex and I to agree.

Because of the distance they live away from me now, this now usually ends up as half of each holiday period, meaning we do Fri-Wed or Wed-Sun for the shorter half terms. The problem is that it limits what you can do in that relatively short time. You might be better agreeing to alternate the half terms so she gets this full week but you get the next one.

I completely empathise with you if she’s being difficult and restricting access without good reason. I’ve got friends in that position, and been through a period where my ex was fucking me around too. Life’s a LOT easier if you can steer through the emotional crap and get to a point where the two of you discuss things calmly, even if that seems a long way off.

And for the PP who said that Family court isn’t biased against Dads? PMSL - you are clearly someone who’s never survived an encounter with that organisation. It’s more blatantly biased than Russia getting to host the World Cup!

2boysDad · 21/05/2018 10:34

Also my understanding is that 50/50 isn't advised any more as it's too disruptive for the children

No - your personal prejudice is that 50/50 is too disruptive for the children. 50/50 works well in lots of more progressive countries.

OP- the problem lies in your original post "At the moment there are no court orders "

You need to get to court, get a shared parenting order in place which will include holiday time. The longer you leave it, the easier it will be for her to portray herself as "the main parent."

The clock is ticking...

VioletCharlotte · 21/05/2018 12:07

OP still hasn't been back to explain why social services are involved.

Quartz2208 · 21/05/2018 12:27

I read that as him stating the belief that he should have regular contact not that they were involved

Icklepickle101 · 21/05/2018 13:14

Different as me and ex do mainly 50/50 but holidays aren’t counted in this. If he wants to take away over ‘my days’ it’s fine and vice versa. Otherwise no one would ever get a week away together which seems very much like cutting off your nose to spite your face

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