How Do You Build Confidence As a 25 Year Old Virgin?

[seekingadvice12321]

I’m posting on here to get any advice on how to change my situation. I’m a 25 year old virgin guy. I’ve never kissed. I have very bad self-esteem. I got bullied quite seriously all the way through school. I had very few friends at the time and a girlfriend was out of the question.

I got called retard, fatty, brace face etc. I was overweight and the bullying made that worse. There was a game like tag that involved tapping me and then tapping someone else saying (my name) germs, no returns. I got things thrown at me a sometimes, had my bag hidden or thrown out the window, things like that.

That ingrained into me that I was ugly, stupid and worth less as a person than everybody else. I lost the weight when I was between 14 and 16 when I started playing a lot of rugby.

I never learnt how to date or interact romantically with girls. For the vast majority of people, you seem learn this very slowly from about age 10 , but because of my circumstances I never did.

When I went to university I was surprised at people treating me equally to other people, which I know is sad. I did get involved in lots of clubs and societies and did go out drinking sometimes, although I hate clubbing and dancing , it’s really not my thing. I would never have the confidence to approach a woman, I have no idea really how dating and relationships work. I was at university for 5 years. I did a year abroad and a master’s degree during that time.

To give a background of where I am now, the career I was going to go into didn’t work out. I’m now doing a job that’s poorly paid but that I enjoy which is working with people with mental health problems , learning disabilities and elderly people. I do a lot of applying for benefits, dealing with debt, arranging carers/cleaners, things like that. I’m looking at doing a graduate entry mental health social work program when it next opens.

At the moment I’m back at home and saving a lot to get a deposit to eventually be able to buy a flat in the future, which isn’t an ideal living situation, but the alternative is a local house share that would mean me saving nothing at all.

I don’t have a huge social life, only a few friends . I’m involved with a soup kitchen type thing and I enjoy the community of the people that come in and the volunteers and I’m in a hiking group. I am going away for a week with the hiking group and go to social events, but it’s a structured group thing rather than one on one friendships though if you see what I mean.

I’ve been doing online dating for the past year and a half and I’ve met 8 people, but nothing has worked out. I get very anxious before dates as it’s such a huge thing for me . I had a second date last night, which is only the second time this has happened. I drove an hour to where she lives, I picked her up and we went to a pub.

I got so nervous I had a headache in the day I had a headache and an upset stomach. She asked me how much I had dated. I had told her on the first date that I had never had a girlfriend as she asked how long I’d been single and I didn’t want to lie and I couldn’t brush the question off. I ended up telling her I hadn’t kissed and pretty much what I wrote in the first paragraph when she naturally asked why.

At the end when I dropped her off we had a long conversation saying that she would genuinely like to be friends and that I was a lovely guy and that I was better looking than my tinder pictures and she was surprised that I had never kissed. She said she can’t date a guy without a lot of confidence and that if I had confidence she would be attracted to me. She's said had to fight to get her self esteem up and doesn't want to go through that process again. We had quite a useful conversation.

I absolutely hate myself but I don’t know how to build self-esteem and confidence when I don’t know what I’m doing and facing a lot of rejection . I really believe I’m ugly etc but it’s now that that’s making me unattractive. I wish I could breeze in and out of relationships like most people. I would love to experience affection and to be loved but I don’t have the confidence and dating skills to get to that point. I feel I’ll never be able to experience relationships.

How do you build self-confidence and learn to date in this situation? Any advice would be welcome .

I had that thought too Pandora, in terms of getting it out of the way, but in OP's case I'm not sure it's the right thing as he sounds very honest and like he'd be mortified having to explain that to a future girlfriend - that he lost his virginity to a sex worker. It could potentially make his self-confidence even lower if it doesn't happen more organically.

I know you have had alot of response on this, and they all seem to be helpful and along the lines of what i was thinking.

Firstly im sorry you were bullied, i think its so important to teach our kids compassion and how badly bullying at teenage stage can effect adulthood. We had a guy in our year at school who went through the same thing as you and i felt for him so badly, my friends took the mick out of me for feeling for him ... any partner work in PE he went with the teacher so one day a few weeks into term i decided he would be my PE partner ... i cant say we become best friends but i think by me speaking to him like the NORMAL person he was it allowed him to build confidence when saying hello in the hall etc. Id hate to think of him feeling this way now.

Anyway. This is nothing to be ashamed of and actually to the right person will be charming and attractive. Girls like a mix of sensitivity and confidence ... you have the first and its just the last you need to work on... i understand why you wouldnt want to tell people the truth but equally i think you should be picky on who your honest with ...

Suggest some nights out to friends from your social group - take the lead and although clubs may not be for you, find some bars you might enjoy or if you like music maybe go to a gig or festival?

Like others said just go in for the kiss and see what happens ... with any luck you wont ever see that person again in your life if it doesnt go how you hoped or even better you may both like it and get another date out of it?

Dont put too much pressure on yourself, nobody has a 100% success rate on dates believe me and i think internet dating is great for building self esteem, so good for you!!

As for sexual encounters, the first time is never great for anybody ... most people lie and pretend they are gods gift from the get go but that stuff you learn along with time ... dont believe everything you watch on tv and the internet probably holds a realm of tips for the "first time" dont be afraid to have a look. Remeber everyone had a first time.

Date tips all i can say is have plenty to say, be interested in her and find out as much as you can about her, be honest with out being down about it and try and find out if your into the same things!

I honestly wish you the best of luck, be confident in your self you will be fine!!

PS have you ever considered joining an anti bullying campaign or group? you may find people have been in similar situations and you may find your compatible to somebody who understands your past and makes you feel like you can be yourself?

Just a thought, not the same i know but i had 3 miscarriages and i went to a Miscarriage group - at first i felt stupid, but then when the group started i found myself relating to certain people and i asked one lady for a coffee after to find out more about her after-care ... i actually looked forward to the next one which is not what i thought would happen.

Thanks for all the advice. Going to a sex worker wouldn't be right for me. I'm massively against the sex trade, although no disrespect to sex workers at all. It's too often exploitative and even then, paying for pretend affection isn't what I want and would probably kill my self esteem even more.

I'll really consider the getting involved with an anti bullying charity idea LJM2B and i'm sorry about your miscarriages.

I think the easiest way of explaining how I feel is that I started getting bullied at a young age , about 8 and then all the way through school so bullying was normal to me. I just accepted that I was lower than everyone else . In a similar way to what LJM2B said, people who would interact with me would be teased for interacting with me. My heart would sink at the words 'get into pairs' because that meant being the only one left and then a teacher having to force somebody to go with me, usually while turning their backs and laughing with their friends at how they had to be with me. Or moving away from me when lining up to go in in the morning. If you're socialised from a young age being called ugly/stupid/ being isolated etc daily you just believe it. Then I just accepted I was below everyone else and repulsive.

I do feel angry when people say it's character building or it's just kids being kids. I wish they knew the damage it can do.

Anyway, it's really good typing it out anonymously . I don't talk about this in real life except with my best friend and then probably not in quite as much detail as i've put here.

I think if you were going to go to a sex worker you would have done it by now, and although yes that would be the easiest way to 'show you the ropes' ... i think from reading your posts you don't seem the type of person that would want to do that/be proud of that. Having said that, i know somebody who is now 35, married with 2 girls who was a virgin at 23 he didnt have 'his own friends' and hung around with his younger cousin and his friends, they all encouraged him to go to Amsterdam and do the obvious and it really did boost his confidence, within 2 years he had a few dates and met the woman he is with now.

I quite honestly hate bullying it really does effect so many adults because of there childhood ... character building its not!!! ... I wish i would of had more confidnce when i was younger to stop bullying, i never ever joint in and would always go against the grain and talk to those who were bullied but of course peer pressure stopped me from ever pushing it further. I know that i will drum it into my children how awful bullying is. Best thing people how have been bullied can do is do well in adult life and succeed - study something you enjoy and earn money from it, i bet half your bullies are currently having crappy lives or if not now will be in 10 years time.

Im glad your finding some relief from using MN forum, keep talking to your best friend, confide in them and maybe open up a bit more! try and shake off those old feelings and move forward with your new life ... find confidence and do things you enjoy, this will make you go into a comfort zone and will possibly allow you to gain confidence in certain surroundings and i hope this will lead to finding a lady!!

For example 30% of married couples meet in there working environment, and i think thats because your doing something you know and that portrays confidence.

Dont focus on getting a girlfriend just yet, i think if that happens then its a bonus but right now try and have some 'young fun', continue online dating and take some advice from here in regards to what to start doing to meet the right people and lastly DO NOT WORRY first time at everything is going to bit a bit off but practice makes perfect.

OP, you sound like such a lovely chap, honestly you're a real catch, the tragedy is you can't see it. I was bullied a bit at school and a lot by my mum so I can completely relate to the feeling of being separate/lower than others and as though the things that others enjoy without a second thought are 'not for you'. That was exactly how I felt until a year ago (and I'm 35! So you are dealing with this way earlier which is brilliant).

I think you'd benefit hugely from counselling or longer term psychotherapy - or even a bit of shorter term CBT to tackle your negative thought patterns and anxiety before a date. I know the idea will feel mortifying, especially if you are worried about sharing everything with a therapist, but honestly I really think if you shopped around and found someone you clicked with, they could help you enormously. The bullying will have left it's mark and it will have created all sorts of assumptions which you don't even see, let alone question. Assumptions about yourself I mean, that you aren't any good, worthless or whatever. Bullying does that, it's really insidious and gets right in your head.

I wish you so well because you sound like a wonderful person and any woman would be lucky to have you. Good luck.

Reading your posts, I have an image in my head of one of those pictures made up of lots of words, some bigger than others, but when you step back far enough all the words form an image of a person. I’m not sure if you know what I mean.

It seems to me that in your picture of yourself some of the words are in large, bold text: bullied, unattractive, inferior, less...

If you can imagine it, can you shrink some of those words and make others stand out? Educated, well-travelled, dedicated, compassionate...

I know it sounds daft but actually doing this an art exercise might be quite helpful.

Hi OP - I think you’ve been brave to write this post and seek help - it’s a great sign. And in all honesty - there is nothing wrong with you other than the internal voices of your childhood that have stunted your growth. And what you need now is just a path to male self improvement.
Confidence, and a good solid core, and an easy nature, are really important- because they are what people need in a partner, a potential life partner - a potential father. If you wobble at a slight push - she won’t feel safe with you. And why should she?
So - some things just just occur to me...
Firstly - toughen up. If you are so scared of being judged, or being rejected or friend zoned that you are anxious and distressed - you have no use for a woman seeking a partner. She’ll figure you can’t offer safety or or can be relied on or supportive. Instead she’ll sense a ‘needy’ trait.
Secondly - you think inexperience is a problem. It’s not. Failing to learn, change and grow. Failing to respond and improve-now that is a far bigger problem. There are plenty of men who’ve had a string of relationships, lots of experience and learnt nothing - because they had no interest in pleasing another person. Willingness to learn and adapt with another person is what counts!
Thirdly - maybe take things in bites / in stages, don’t dive in the deep end! Don’t look for a girlfriend- look for a date! Take all the pressure off. Say you are just looking to buy dinner and enjoy some company. And do just that - no expectations of online dating games/‘sex/girlfriend/life partner - just dinner and company. Learn to enjoy the art of conversation, the art of listening- asking more than you tell. And after a few different dinner dates, you’ll become more confident and you’ll know if any worked well enough to be worth a second date - just take it slow.
Work on yourself - because it’s working for your future - and you’ll get there! Good luck OP.

In relation to therapy, I think I would be open to that, even if it's a bit embarrassing. I think the problems I have are self esteem, some anxiety and a negative thought pattern that means I put myself down.

If I achieve anything, I always downplay it. For example, when I passed my driving test, i'd see it as well most people drive, it's not a big achievement. When I got my A level results I got very high marks on the final papers because I studied obsessively for them and ended up with ABB as final grades, although I went into them on BCC or something similar. After being relieved, I remember I was thinking if only I had done that well all the way through I could of got AAA. Similar lots of smaller things.

I sometimes get feel anxious about something stupid, then even when the minor thing has passed I can't get rid of the anxiety. The anxiety often makes it difficult to concentrate and can make me more irritable than i'd usually be. I usually hide it well though. Unless I get ridiculously nervous, nobody would know that I was anxious.

I was looking at free counselling/ talking therapy in my area. There is free counselling for 11-25 year olds with Relate under a local scheme. Obviously i'm right on the edge of the age range. That's aimed more for issues at home/dealing with bullying, parents splitting up etc. Young People's Counselors do that. I don't know whether that would be appropriate for me in relation to bullying.

There's also another NHS talking therapy which is very focused on anxiety/depression generally and maybe does CBT, i'm not sure. It's a 6 session thing.

I'm not sure which of those would be best because I think bullying specifically is the main issue which I don't think would be dealt with by more general anxiety type treatment. The anxiety comes and goes though.

Thanks again for all the responses though. It's given me lots of ideas. I will try some of them. I think i've just become a lot more self aware as i've got older. I'm actually a lot more confident than I used to be, believe it or not. I used to put off making phone calls for days from being anxious i'd sound like an idiot . But I wasn't really aware of why I wasn't confident in the same way I am now.

You sound really nice. Have you tried counselling to help you come to terms with the bullying? It may help you as it seems to have affected you very badly. I know it is a common saying but you need to love yourself before you can love others.

Sorry just read your latest post. You have every reason to feel confident. Don't let something that happened in the past affect your entire life. I hope you find something that helps you :)

Also if you don't feel comfortable with therapy there are plenty of self-help books that may be able to help you.

Some excellent advice on here for you OP.
I agree you sound lovely and thoughtful and I really believe there's someone out there for us all. It's just finding them.
Please do be kinder to yourself. Those bullies are just horrible horrible people and have no idea about the long term effects it has on people.
Hold you head up high, be as confident as you can be, happy chatty and try and relax on dates and I'm sure the girls will have a great time, you sound lovely to talk to and so don't be worrying it's the bullies with issues not you.
I agree with kissing it's instinctive, I was so nervous as my first kiss was with a boy who had snogged loads of girls and I was so nervous. Anyway he put his tongue down my throat and acted like a washing machine it was awful and I was smitten with him. My second kiss was much nicer with a boy with not as much confidence but more gentle and didn't stick his tongue down my throat and whirl it around!!! Just be gentle and relax you will honestly be fine. My first kiss had no idea it was my first kiss and I definitely wasn't telling him as he was a right jack the lad.
Go out and enjoy yourself, life is for living - you're a prime age. Enjoy and good luck!!! xxxxx