Can you EVER get someone to LTB?

[bubbleunicorn]

NC. A close family member has a verbally abusive OH. He is fairly nice some of the time but has no problem having screaming, abusive, tantrums over very minor things (think "we ran out of milk" minor) and so we walk on eggshells whenever he is around. We have tried to go NC but it's like she is his hostage - any "bad" behaviour on our part is taken out on her so we feel trapped too. She has been talking about leaving him for YEARS, and she is very well prepared. She has plenty of places she could go, and she has been told many many times she could live with us as long as she likes. But she just can't bring herself to do it. Every time he turns "nice" again (which isn't even that nice) she seems to forget about leaving until he is awful again.

Is there honestly anything more we can do? This is miserable for the whole family. Sorry if I don't reply very quickly or give out much more detail - I don't want to give more away than I have to.

Not really. Short of kidnapping

I suppose the one thing more legal than kidnap, maybe you could arrange a few days away together without telling her the purpose and when she's away she might have a clearer head to think things through?

I don't think there is much you can do but I wonder about you all walking on eggshells around him. I can understand why you don't want to cause her any more angst but he is making you complicit in his abuse in some ways. I don't mean really complicit just he is involving you and by forcing you to accept him, abuse and all, in your family circle, he is making you give the impression that you condone his behaviour even though you don't.

If you stopped walking on eggshells and refused to meet with him or invite him to family gatherings, how much worse would it get for her? Would he stop her meeting you by herself? (I'd find it very hard to let that happen if it was my relative) Would he just scream and rant and tantrum some more? I do think at some point you have to recognise that he is making a choice and to some extent she is making a choice and you can also make a choice that doesn't include spending time with someone who is abusive.

@pallisers Thanks for that very sensible perspective. I haven't thought of it that way before. Maybe we are mistaken in letting him get away with his choice. I don't think she is really able to make choices clearly - he has told her she is useless for so long and that she will never get on without him, but I think you are right in that we have a choice.

We were going to go an spend a week with her at their invitation, but I am, right now, going to book a holiday instead and invite her to come if she wants. I am not seeing him any more, because I am stressed and upset every time we go.

Good choice OP

You can't argue someone out of an emotional position. She knows all of the excellent arguments to leave but has never-the-less found just enough justification to stay. If you try to argue the toss she will either believe you and become defensive, or genuinely think you are wrong - that you don't know all the facts, that you don't know him like she does and so on.

I guess it is fear of the unknown that makes her stay, that her new life might be even worse than this one. At some point that might change, all you can do is let her know that, when she's ready, you will support her.

I think pallisers is right that the dynamic of the wider family tip-toeing around him needs to stop, while keeping the door open to her.

You can't make her leave. But you can make it easier for her to do so when she is ready.

1. Don't let him isolate her any further. Find a method of communication that you can have with her directly - phone calls to a number or at a time you know he is out and cannot overhear, WhatsApp chat, emails, even actual letters, whatever is most secure. I used to write to a friend of mine who was in an abusive relationship bc I knew the post came after he left for work. All other channels of communication were monitored by him.

2. stop badgering her to leave. He already tells her she is stupid, weak, pathetic, etc. She doesn't need to hear you of all people agreeing with him.

3. encourage her to take practical steps that you frame as "just in case", for example, saving some money he doesn't know about, or making sure she has copies of financial docs.

4. don't issue "him or me" ultimatums. It'll be him. If she complains about his behaviour, don't say "I've told you a million times to leave him, either do that or shut up". Continue to sympathise, support her point of view, and tell her his behavior is abusive and unreasonable.

5. reiterate (casually but persistently so it sinks in) options that she has - for example, telling her "well, you know you can always come here if you need to - just turn up in the middle of the night if it comes to it" or "if you needed a place to stay for a few months to get back on your feet, your parents would be delighted to have you stay". I used to joke about my friend living in my garden shed and how we would team up and become lady detectives. It was lighthearted and affection, but it reiterated that there were other ways and places to live than with her partner.

6. Don't collude in minimising his behaviour. This is a tricky one and you will have to make a call on if there is a way to stop having contact with him but still see her. As far as possible, stick to seeing her alone and be upfront. "I don't like the way x treats you and I'd like to just spend time with you". "I haven't invited x to my birthday because I'm worried that he will behave badly. I'd prefer it if just you came along." You want to avoid (as far as possible) modelling a situation in which her partners abusive behaviour has to be endured, managed and accommodated by everyone. Instead, show her that it is possible to have a boundary about who you will and won't tolerate. YMMV on this one though.

That's all I can think of, but I bet other people will have other suggestions. Oh, and educate yourself on the mechanics of abusive relationships. You will better understand what she is going through, and it will also help if you can name terms for what she's going through. If she's describing behaviours and you can say something like "hmm. That sounds a bit like gaslighting" or "you poor thing. The cycle of abuse is so destructive" then you are giving her concrete terms that she can Google and will make her feel less like this is a unique and complicated problem no one could understand.

Absolutely great post @SendintheArdwolves , it deserves to be in a sticky at the top of the forum. You have your template OP.

Can you EVER get someone to LTB?

Be mindful about being excessively critical of him, it could backfire on your friendship over the longer term.

I had a friend who's DH was emotionally abusive to her. I supported her, and would point out in strong terms some of the things he'd say that were deliberately said to erode her confidence and wear her down.

She decided not to LTB but cut ties with me. I never found out why but I suspect it was because I had been critical of him, and she took offence over it. It makes me sad to think she's still with him but I had to detach myself emotionally, not over-invest, and recognise and respect her choice.