advice on a toxic sister?

[AcrossTheOcean]

Hello all and apologies for the long post, just not sure of the best way forward and looking for advice.

The situation: I have a sister and her family and my elderly mum who live together far away and it is difficult to see them. However, when I went last year for a visit with my young DS, I was treated horribly, mainly by my sister and to a lesser extent by her family.

Think eye rolls when I walk into a room, major drama and blame for me and my DS about a small spot of the couch or what have you, speaking to everyone in the room except me, quite pointedly ignoring me and DS or leaving the room when we come in or verbally attacking me and telling me how I think and feel. And then blaming me that I am the bad one causing all the problems.

Honestly, when I'm there, it is like I don't know which way is up! I have almost no contact with any of them, so I'm not even sure what we did to be so disliked! Also, when I arrived and hadn't seen my sister in two years, she didn't even say hello to me or anything, just ignored me. Until I couldn't help it and got angry and said what the hell!

However, if people they know outside the family visit, it is all smiles and Oh, I love my sis. Rollercoaster stuff. I was constantly apologizing for I don't even know what just to try to get through. One good thing, is that in the larger family part of the trip, I found out she has been treating everyone this way since my mum moved in with her.

Then this year my mum went further down hill, one of my DBs became quite ill and they said just let it all go and try to get on. However, I just cannot.

I had written several emails reaching out to her in the past year, all very kind and utterly ignored by her. Finally when my mum talked about my visiting a couple days ago, I said I was frustrated as I have reached out so many times, put up with so much, I am tired of bending over to make this work. I said that sister could reach out to me. So then, I get a text from my sis about an hour later: Hey, Happy Mother's Day, hope you had a fun day! Love

I feel awful I can't even trust a simple text, but she can be very charming one minute then rip your insides out the next. Or stab you in the back or.... I just know that since I haven't answered yet that confirms for her and my mom, see, she is so horrible, we've tried etc. etc.

And the text just ignored everything she's done, like I should be fine and everything is great. That's her MO.

I guess I'm wondering, what to do? Just says thanks and try to get past all this? Or write back trying to open up a conversation, saying, look I didn't reply because you didn't answer the emails and cards that I sent etc. and this is how I feel about last summer...

Sorry this is so long, but I appreciate hearing what has worked for any of you? Besides NC, which I have long thought of, but I would like to see my mother again!

You do neither. You go low contact, and treat her like an acquaintance. So small talk only, nothing personal, no real talk.

You do not ask her opinion, you just do your own thing with regards to visiting your Mum. You book a hotel when visiting as a matter of course "we wouldn't DREAM of putting you out by staying with you!"

Basically it's serene and light and superficial.

Cos you have tried to force her to a postortem and she's not having it. Stop wasting your breath and your energy.

So text back "thanks hun! Hope you're all well!" and thats it.

Play her at her own game.

Thanks ElsbethFlashman, low contact sounds good, but I'm afraid I'm not very good at playing games or faking it! But keeping contact to a minimum is probably best.

I wouldn't bother with her tbh

just text back 'tx hun x'

AcrosstheOcean, mind if I sit in on this. My sister is the same. I don't know what I have done. When I am meant to have done it or how to make it better.
I feel uncomfortable round both my sisters now.
HOwever, just recently her son has been diagnosed with a condition. I found it impossible to simply ignore this. We went round and it was just awful but I felt I had to show concern...or something.
I am so interested to find out what people have to say because I am all out of clues.
The rules keep changing. She behaves appallingly yet no one ever calls her on it and I know that if I leave things...it is going to be me being aggressive hositle etc.
I don't care anymore. There is only so much you can do and only so long you can go on being a punch bag. You have my deepest sympathies and I understand your confusion but it is a kicking to nothing. Trust me.
Is your sister the youngest by any chance?

And mine does the same thing...all her behaviour is white washed over. I just don't understand it. It hurts so much and it is so confusing and that is precisely the point, it is all an exercise in control and manipulation.

lolaflores, please do :) Honestly, I think the best response may be no contact, but I can't because my mum lives in her house!

And no, it is an older sister.

What I read is that she lives with your elderly mum who is getting worse. You have very little contact and rarely visit, so she is left with all the responsibility for caring for your mum? If that's the case I'd be pissed off with you too. You say she's been acting like this to everyone since your mum moved in with her. Seems like taking on your mum has raised issues. Are any of your family helping her regularly with your mum? If you're only visiting once a year and have only sent emails which try to open a dialogue on how her behaviour is wrong I'm not surprised she didn't answer. Perhaps she needs more support and sees you swanning in for a yearly visit as being unsisterly and an abduction of responsibility for your joint mother.

Abdication not abduction! Lol

Which is all a fair point but 8f the sister has never localised her discontent the how does OP know what is actually the matter?
The acting out is not conducive to a helpful conversation

Thingsdogetbetter we have tried to engage her as a family to see how we can best support her and her family, both by taking care in person and financially. She will have none of it and will not engage and won't speak to us. My mother has expressed a preference for her extended family to stay with her when sister's family goes away and I have sent my DS's holiday schedule and said I would come anytime up to 3-4 times a year. She didn't respond, she just hired somebody without telling us.

She just has purposefully cut my mother off from the rest of the family, made all of us uncomfortable to come over and won't let us help. She and my mother are each well off in their own right, so don't want for help anyway, but she purposely excludes our repeated offers and suggestions, literally will not respond, obfuscates.

With me, she literally won't let me speak and won't even be alone with me, though occasionally offloads for 45 minutes about herself, but there is not actual conversation.

I think actually, it is all grudges and insecurities she's had from childhood. Though honestly, I don't have any feckin idea. Is it about control? About the bottomless hole in her heart? Do I give a shite at this point?

It is centre stage. The martyr.
My sister is actually quite territorial about our mother despite giving out about her and all the free child care.
They keep winning as long as you don't understand whats going on.
That is my conclusion.
If you keep trying to work it out or get some handle on whats going on, then the whole shit fest keeps rolling on.
I am trying NC at the moment with the lot of them and although it is Me who has decided to exclude myself, I feel pushed out and that I had no choice. But, it was me or my sanity and I can't go on being made to feel so bad so awful just because she has a hair up her ass from the time she was 4.
I don't know if there is any other way of dealing with it. Sorry to make this about me, but it sounds like you are in the exact same spot.

I think @thingsdogetbetter made some good points. It sounds like your sister is a rubbish communicator, but it also sounds like she's been left as sole carer for your elderly mum.

In terms of holidays, was it something like her / your mum saying "can you do these dates?" and you saying "no, here's my son's holidays, I'm prepared to do 3 or 4 visits within these periods"? If so, your sister may have thought "Why bother? I do all the caring and nobody else is pulling their weight". Mate she had a holiday booked or a time she needed to fit in with. People do quite often end up rejecting offers of help if they feel the "help" isn't actually what they need.

I'm not saying that she's been reasonable! But before labelling somebody "toxic", it may be worth really trying hard to see it from her point of view. This may be difficult if she is rubbish at explaining her pov clearly and politely, but then, lots of people do find that hard.

Would it be possible for your mum to come to stay with you for a little while? That way you can see her without your sister.

Yes, the martyr. I think why I am having difficulty is you just have to completely let go, as if this was a stranger. And I'm a bit susceptible to friendliness and smiles, though honestly, once someone has pushed too far with me, I won't go back.

She's actually just sent an email, thought I may have tried to get in touch. That's more communication I've had from her in a year.

Despite playing the martyr, is there a chance that she really resents you for not being around for your Mum
A bit more?

MaryPeary all of us (we are a large family) have offered to stay when needed or if she could schedule, have offered to pay for someone to come help, whatever they need, we wanted to discuss what would be best for her, practically begged, we want to help please let's talk about how. We offered to meet with her with her pastor if she felt she needed support, whatever, we were/are willing.

To be honest, without consulting any of us, some years back she got my mother to agree to go in half to buy property and build a new house for my mother and her family. My mother complained bitterly that my sister pushed and pushed her for more and more money, for things she'll never use.

And my mother still pays a lot of their bills or if my sister wants to upgrade something, and they always buy top of the line for everything. The house is absolutely massive. And nobody has said a word to her about, though not sure everybody knows.

And she does help my mom stay on top of her health, in some ways, though for instance one night my mom fell and laid there for hours before anyone knew, and she had a collapsed lung etc. Nobody said to her how could you, though I'd suggested one of those neck things for a long time.

My mom actually rarely sees my sister because she works long hours. And other people who live close by who would like to come, are not welcome.

Anyway, it is what it is.

CisMyArse could well be, but I think she is more angry about the possibility of what might be required in the future rather than what she's actually had to do and somehow she confuses the two, if that makes sense?

At any rate, she is a very angry woman who pretends not to be and cannot speak honestly and directly about whatever's going on for her.

I try to be charitable and think maybe she doesn't recognise her own feelings or something but I no longer care. I am done being treated like absolute garbage and I have certainly helped a lot in previous years, when my father died etc. and also with my mom.

I feel for you OP as how you described it above is how I feel when I used to visit my family. I don't go back now at all for various other reasons however although it has helped me by being practically NC, it still plays on my mind and I am not at ease with my family situation.

Agree with the advice from Elspeth above is the way forward for dealing with your sister whose behaviour is passive-aggressive to say the least.

To be clear. Your sister is not waiting on your mother and doing the day to day labour/physical care for your Mum? She doesn't have to lift your mum in and out of bed, wash her, feed her, check her during the night. And I assume your Mum does not have dementia of any form that means she needs constant supervision? This is not an intense care situation?
Your sister can if she wishes have holidays as she can call or pay for help if she wants to go away? And as you have said, you have all offered.
This is not a sibling struggling with sole care of an elderly parent from where I see it.
I understand the smiles and friendliness compulsion. It is hard to be the one to throw a grenade into a seemingly happy bubble and it sometimes seems the easiest option to just smile and let it pass but it takes a toll when you are constantly confused and hurt. It is all low level hurtful bullying and whatever the reasons for it are, it isn't fair.

Difficultfamily you have done such a brave thing to go NC with your family. We grow up hoping and believing that our family will be the safest place for us. They will be the last people to mistreat us but we are at our most vulnerable and least able to protect ourselves.
I read books and articles about NC with family and part of me nods and agrees but when I try to imagine it, I just freeze. I could go some of the way but I think a part of me will never entirely seperate.

Thanks Difficultfamily, yes, think this is the way forward.

Lola, what she does now is drive my Mom to appointments a few times a month, buys what my mom would like from the store and that's more or less it.

Imho, it seems to me that your sister may be financially abusing your mum. Pestering her into paying for half a house, top of the line everything...maybe that is why she isn’t so excited about having any of the siblings get too close.

AndTheBandPlayedOn She is taking advantage most certainly, not sure if it has tipped over into abuse, although tellingly my mom sees everything that goes on, but doesn't want to confront my sister as she is a bit frightened as she is her main caretaker in the end. And they do generally take good care and treat her well and of course she doesn't want that to change.

Also, my mom can't visit me as I don't think she could survive the journey. She can get around her little space and make food for herself etc. but that's her day and she's very tired by the end.

Anyway, like most things there are many aspects to the situation. After writing here, I do feel more clear about how I will respond however, so thank you all for that.

I wrote all that earlier and now thinking am I being terribly naive?

Anyway, lola, just wanted to say, I've really processed these family relationships as being over, well mostly, obviously I'm worried above about visiting my mom. But is has been such s freedom and good thing for me in so many ways to finally say enough and I'm not going to try to make it right, and to just stop and focus on my life.

And I don't rule out all of us growing and maybe reconnecting one day but also maybe we'll just be too far apart as people, in our interests and values, either way I'm no longer (as) invested emotionally... anyway, good luck with your situation, I hope you come to whatever is right for you.