Me and my friend.

[ozzy83]

Evening All,

Long term poster here, name changing for this... I don't really know why tbh but feels like the right thing to do.

I'm having an issue with a friend, a really good friend and would really like to gather some perspective. I'll try to be brief, but also try and get the facts right.

I've been friends with "Louise" for a long time, around 13 years. We have been very, very close over this time and never had a cross word. Bridesmaids for each other... you get the picture, generally all good. We have mutual good friends.

Louise is life and soul of the party, and very attractive, this is relevant. She prides herself on her looks and I think enjoys the attention her looks get her, we are now mid 30's.

I have two children, 6 and 3. Louise has one child, who's 2. Her child has been difficult and still doesn't sleep, she has found motherhood hard but doesn't want to address the child's sleep issues and generally seems to enjoy motherhood. I felt Louise and her DH had issues since their baby, but when I tried to bring it up she'd brush it off so I respected her feelings and didn't push the issue.

Louise has another friend, Kate. I've known Kate for about the same time I've known Louise. Louise and Kate are really good friends. Kate used to live abroad, then a city far away but has moved this year to the same city as me and Louise. I'm not the biggest fan of Kate, I find her cold and money obsessed, we are just very different people but I've always respected Kate is important to Louise and socialised about once a year with Kate when she would visit. Now Kate lives in the same town, with a very similar aged child to Louise, they see each other much more, all fine with me in just politely keep my distance.

Last year, prior to Kate moving to our town, we all went on a girls weekend away, organised by me. Louise had asked to invite Kate, it was sort of for Louise's birthday so I didn't question it. Whilst we were there, Kate let slip to me she knew about problems me and my husband had been having about a year before. These were very personal issues I'd shared with Louise, I was really shocked and very upset but didn't say anything to Louise. The problems had meant DH had moved out for a short period, at the time I didn't bother Louise with this as she was so bogged down with her newish baby. When I later confided in Louise, she was upset I'd not told her but no further support was offered, it kind of just got forgotten about. Then my stepdad who raised me, died suddenly, the grief from this and the pressure of supporting my Mum has made the past year very hard, I don't feel Louise has been the best friend she could have been but I've tried to think everyone is different, but I've had this nagging hurt from the realisation she essentially gossiped to me to Kate, who would never have been someone to offer me support or help. If Louise had contacted a good mutual friend, I'd have kind of understood, but this just felt gossipy and unnecessary. I suppose now in hindsight, I can see I've distanced myself slightly from Louise but still made an effort, have people to my house, invite her round with her child, enquire about her life and family regularly. This of course is only me perspective.

Within all this, about 3 years ago, I made a good friend, let's call her Rachel...when my son started school. We have grown very close in that time and I really enjoy her company. She has been a good and true friend and very supportive. Louise vaguely knew Rachel from being out when we were younger and when she found out we had become friends, was very outspoken about her, unfairly so I think as they didn't know each other, just were on the same scene. I should mention Rachel is VERY attractive to the point where people comment on it all the time. Louise has made unkind comments about Rachel being "shallow" which I feel is uncalled for, least of all as Louise likes to make an effort too.

I tried to mix Louise and Rachel once, it didn't really work, both didn't seem to enjoy each other's company, I also felt Louise was OTT and was trying to "out do" Rachel. She made a couple of silly comments and since then I've tried to just keep them separate and socialise with them separately. Anyway, not much has happened since then apart from an increase on me seeing Kate, which I'm not loving, feel she is being a bit forced on me and my group. As I said, I don't hate her, but since realising she knows too much about my life, I feel uncomfortable around her. My DH does not want to mix with her and her husband now he knows she knows stuff about us which is painful and actually embarrassing.

It's my birthday this week, and I'm not really in the mood for doing much. Louise asked if I wanted to do something, but every time something was mentioned it included Kate but not Rachel, despite Louise knowing Rachel is a good friend of mine. Immaturely, I made my excuses and said I was busy with uni work (true) and Work but could me and Louise do something in half term, she agreed.

Last week, I went to a ticketed event with another of mine and Louise's friends, Sarah. We had been invited by Rachel, it was at her sisters restaurant and Rachel had invited another friend of hers we hadn't met. Sarah does the marketing for the restaurant so knows the owner well as well as being far more friendly with Rachel too. That friend shared a picture on Facebook of the four of us, and tagged me in it (added me as friend during the night). Louise commented "Where's my invite" and then "It's ok, I know I'm 2 years ago."

I was so mortified. Really embarrassing to write things like that.

Rightly or wrongly, I texted Louise the next day and just clarified that it was a night I was invited to, not organised and it wasn't a birthday thing or anything, and actually I'd only met one of the girls that night.

Louise answered and said "Fair enough, I just feel like the boring friend, and that it's been ages since we've been able to organise anything."

I said could we go out just the two of us in half term and she has said "Sure" but she's clearly put out, clearly by my friendship with Rachel. I see Sarah all the time and Louise never comments.

My question is, should I challenge this with Louise? Am I missing something I've done? Should I mention the deceit of her telling Kate my business or has too much time passed? I feel like I'm being punished for going out with a different friend, who happens to be attractive? I can't help thinking she wouldn't be as bothered if Rachel wasn't as glam? What is her issue with her?

As an aside, I was very lonely after the birth of my first son, and missed out on a lot of social activity, it is hard for Louise to get out nowadays but should I be sorry for my life not being as hard to socialise? My life feels so stressful, I just want to socialise and have fun with nice friends who I chose to be mates with!

TIA, that was long! 😣

Over the years I've found that honesty is the best policy rather than dancing around. Be straight with Louise. Tell her that you really like het but don't really enjoy Kate's company. Tell her that she let drop the private information that you'd shared and that this made things worse particularly for your DH. Also tell her that you get the impression that she doesn't much like Rachel so it's awkward when you're all together. And obviously you can't invite her every time Rachel suggests something. Then the ball is in her court. She's not a mind reader. If you don't tell her she can't do anything about it.

That's true white, I just have a feeling she'll deny it but I guess I don't know until I ask!

I had a friend like Louise. Told all my private business to all and sundry.

I cut her off. I didn't tell her why.

I don't tell anyone anything now. Don't have many friends at all

I found that women like Louise dont age well, both as friends and in general when relying on looks...

Friendships come and go - this one I think has run its course you dont really seem to like her and make judgments about her and she gossiped about you

Hi Op
You sound like you have a lot of friends and that's something to be grateful for. I'd ignore the FB dig, but I would certainly mention to her that you were upset about her sharing personal info with her friend Kate. Then I would carry on being friends with everyone, but keep them separate.

Quartz, what judgements do I make? Not being shitty, genuinely interested?

I think I definitely have to tell her about Kate, I'd like to salvage my relationship with Louise, she's meant a lot to me over the years.

I think Louise is possibly rather insecure. She gossips to be interesting to others, she is resentful of you spending time with other friends than her. Neither of these things are a sign of someone who is confident in themselves.

I wouldn't bring up the thing with Kate now. It has been and gone. But I would maybe tell her you aren't keen on Kate and would prefer not to socialize with her as much. Regarding Rachel, I would ignore comments like the one she wrote on fb. You are allowed to be friends with other people and go out with other people. Your social life is not controlled by Louise.

Why did you tell your husband about the gossip? Surely that makes everything harder and more awkward.

Stick with Rachael, she sounds nice and on your wavelength and you have children of similar ages.

Louise sounds like hard work and not very nice to be honest, she puts Kate above you and has let you down by sharing your private business with her without your consent and so has made your relationship with Kate more awkward.

I wouldn't worry about how you are with Kate, sounds fine. She probably keeps you at arms length too and is fine with it. There are always friends of friends that you have to see every now and then, doesn't mean you have to be buddy buddy with them.

Louise feels a bit pushed out by Rachel and you maybe feel pushed out by Kate? I think friendships inevitably change as we get older and particularly when we have kids, different approaches to child rearing etc. I'd speak to Louise about why she feels the need to leave passive aggressive comments on your Facebook rather than discussing things with you, and maybe tell her you weren't happy about her gossiping about you to Kate. But also be aware your friendship may be less strong, perhaps for now, perhaps long term, hard to say. Louise sounds a bit shallow tbh. Rachel sounds alright

7to25, he asked me why I didn't seem to be interested in seeing Louise, so I told him. He's my husband, I'm honest with him 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh dear God.... I'm thinking.. stick with Rachel and stop being petty .

It sounds like Louise was quite happy to be the centre of the friendship, with you and Kate 'vying' for her attention. That way she always had a friend on hand whenever she wanted/needed.

But now that you've made friends with Rachel, she's lost that. You're not always available, and she's peeved. She wants to be back in the 'centre'.

Be Frank with Louise about Kate and don't bore Rachel with it all.
I feel you over think

I used to have a friend like this when I was 14
I'm 26 now, we've not been friends for years.

Tbh... some friends don't like you being friends with certain people.

End of the day you're all adults.
If she really doesn't like this person bring it up, ask her out right. Then you can say ok, I won't try and involve her when we do stuff, but then mention that you don't always want Kate there, And give the reason why

The mention of looks was just because I can't see what Louise's issue with Rachel is as she obviously doesn't like her but for no reason,

she picked up the vibes that you clicked with Rachel and felt jealous, plus she's "more attractive". Slight pinprick of jealousy again. If this was at the same time you slightly distanced yourself it would have made it worse.

I think you need to weigh up how Louise will respond to an honest conversation. If she is jealous she might get very defensive and that sort of thing can really end badly. If she is able to handle tricky conversations, then it's definitely worth talking to her and hopefully clearing the air, and arranging to meet her without Kate around sometimes.

The breach of trust is clearly weighing on you and it might taint things until you have sorted it out, though

People quite often come on here hurt about FB posts where they feel they've been left out of a night out so it's interesting (not massively at this length but still) to see the other side. Quite honestly it sounds like no one is really at fault here and it's just one of those things. You don't like Kate for various reasons. Louise doesn't like Rachel. Her reasons (shallow) are pretty comparable to your reasons (money-obsessed etc) - bottom line is you just don't click with each other's friends. The stuff about the confidence betrayal is the big deal to you, partly I think because it makes you the victim and justifies your detachment from Louise. From her POV the whole saga probably reads very differently, especially not knowing about your beef with the confidence betrayal, which could honestly have been as little as Kate asking how you were and Louise saying she'd not seen you for a while and was worried about you cos of x and y. Sure, she shouldn't have said anything by your rules, but other people have different boundaries and she probably trusted Kate not to get drunk and be a dick about it. If this really is the thing that's causing all the strife, I don't know why your main concern is not mentioning it, because it's not avoiding drama, clearly, it's causing it. At this stage, you might as well be honest and explain to Louise why you've been distancing yourself. Otherwise of course the narrative to her is that you've dropped her for Rachel.

Ideally you can have a non-confrontational grown-up chat about it when you get together at half-term, but it has to be from the view that this may all be a misunderstanding that you want to clear up so everyone can be friends. If that's not possible and it's going to get caught up in schoolground stuff about who looks best (honestly!) then I'd forget it and fully detach. Life's too short.

I agree with whiterose - you should tell Louise that she still means a lot to you and you'd love to see her more often but that you are not too fond of Kate - say you don't feel like she likes you (take the onus off you) and that you'd would rather not socialise with her that often. Tell her that you were hurt when you found out Kate knew private info about you and it makes you feel uncomfortable.

I'd also say that Rachel is a dear friend to you who has offered you loads of support during a very difficult year but you are aware there seems to be some tension between them so you try to keep them apart.

Be honest, you are all in your 30's by the sounds of it and having an honest conversation doesn't automatically mean conflict - if you can't speak honestly to people who are supposed to be such close friends of 10+ years then you may as well cut them off completely.

Thank you all for your input, is interesting to know others perspective.i feel I've waffled on and clearly bored enough of you so I'll hold off of any update! 😂

I had a friend K - who was very much like L. She also had a friend like Kate.

I didn't like 'Kate' much but years later realised that K (My Louise) had almost purposely been fuelling the animosity between us. K was enjoying setting us up against each other and fighting for her attention.

Any new friends for me were obviously going to disrupt the dynamics.

I don't think 'Kate' was ever as bad as I believed and K was actually a pretty nasty person. I'm not sure how I could have been so blind to what was going on.

@Ozzy83 - I actually think the extent of the information is important. You know had you not explained people would have accused you of drip-feeding!

So the basic gist is, Louise is/was your bestie and she wanted to expand your circle to include Kate. You're not the biggest fan of Kate. She's not the biggest fan of Rachael.

I think I would sit down with Louise, neutral location of course, and talk to her about how you think your relationship is changing. Express to her that it's obvious she doesn't like Rachael, and that's okay, but you feel the same about Kate in that you'd rather not hang out with her all the time.

Tell her you want to spend time with her, but there are times you'd rather not invite Kate, especially now knowing that Kate knows things about your private life you thought Louise was keeping to herself and it makes you feel uncomfortable.

I also do want an update but I'm weird like that :P

I think you should just be honest. Also Louise sharing your private business tells you a lot about her character. She can't be trusted. Seeing as she picks people to be friends with who you really don't like I think also tells you a lot. I would focus your energies on your other friends. The passive aggressive FB comment is also immature.

I've had friends betray my confidences in the past and it really hurts. I confided with a friend about my childhood SA at a time when there was a police case going on. I thought that, as she had previously been a children's social worker, she could be trusted. I then became uncomfortable with the way she gossiped about other friends so I asked her straight out whether she had told anyone about what I was going through. She admitted that she had told a mutual friend. She didn't go into details from what she told me, but there was no need to say anything at all.

The point was that it was my story to share, no one else's. We sort of struggled on as friends but I gradually withdrew from her, until we had an awful showdown over another issue (she fell out with a lot of people) and we haven't been in touch since. It taught me that it was best not to share things that I didn't want talked about, so I'm much more cautious.

The other difficulties do seem a bit petty, tbh. Either talk things through or drop them as friends. Friendship is supposed to be something that is positive in your life, not something you dread.

Have a heart to heart. Say it hurt you when a third person knew your business and you ished she hadn’t and would appreciate keeping your confidence. But do t make a big deal of it. Say ,you don’t like x and she doesn’t like y so agree to go out just two of you and have fun like you always do. Why do you both need others friends? And if it’s over then grove and move on.