What would you do? Some days I feel certain I certain I should leave. Think it's EA

[NeedSleepNow]

My husband and I have been together a long time and married 10 years with 3 young children. Our relationship used to be good but has steadily worsened since having children. He gets very cross with the kids, talks to them rudely, sometimes name calling and other times just very negatively and he treats the eldest a lot worse than the two younger children in that respect. I suppose it's a form of EA to an extent (I feel so guilty writing that). Sometimes he makes a real effort with me, other times he is almost unbearable to live with being rude, demanding and refusing to talk when I raise issues and concerns I have saying it is all my fault and I unfairly blame him. It is apparently my fault he speaks to the kids the way he does. We have very little fun as a family, holidays and days out are always disastrous ending in arguments. He suffers with anxiety and depression (is on AD but I don't think they've helped) and has issues with chronic pain. I know that makes life hard for him but only a certain level of poor behaviour is excusable surely. I think he just can't cope with the noise, mess and unpredictability of family life, especially as the children get older and don't always want to do as he says.

I am a sahm so have no way of supporting myself and the kids if we split, I always planned to return to work when our youngest reaches 3 (nearly 2 years time). Husband can be quite controlling with money too. I always thought it was best to stick together for the kids but am realising this is often not the case especially now I hear my eldest (8) speaking like his Dad to me and his sister and starting to have anger issues (I am certain my husband anger management issues). My daughter tries to defend me when her Dad gets cross saying don't worry Mummy I'll explain to Daddy for you. It breaks my heart that it had come to this.

My concern is the children. How it will badly affect them if I stay but my big concern if we split is how much time they would have to spend with their Dad. It's obviously important that they maintain a relationship with him but because of the EA I feel adamant that I would need to be resident parent. My youngest is 1 and breastfed still so overnight stays/long periods of time away from me wouldn't work yet and my middle child is very emotional and I know she couldn't cope with being away from me for long periods yet although as she gets older I'm sure she'll cope better. The oldest would be ok I think. If we couldn't agree on access and it went to court to decide would the EA be taken into consideration (or not as essentially his word against mine)? I worry if not, a court would go for 50/50 shared care as I've read that is the usual now and the level of EA the kids could then be exposed to would be greater than it is now.

I'm just so confused and want to do what is best for my children.

See a solicitor as soon as you can. You are tying yourself up in knots imagining what might be the outcome for contact. A solicitor will set you straight on the facts for your particular situation

Anyway, do you honestly believe he would genuinely request 50:50? How on earth would he manage work and toddlers on his own given that he doesn't have to worry about any of that right now. That's just never going to happen and I doubt a court would say it is in the best interests of the children.

Oh, and you aren't protecting them from his EA now. You've described very well rhe impact on them. You can't protect them. They are even trying to protect you, you are doing such a shit job of it. Sorry to be harsh there but you are fooling yourself if you think you are protecting them now and that every other weekend with him would be worse for them overall.

That's just nasty Rabbit. OP is trying to get the strength to break free.
She's in a confusing and difficult place. She needs to have the inner strength and belief to make this difficult break. Insulting her is counter productive. Shame on you.

And OP you are not making a bad job of things. You are conscious of the situation you are in and trying to find a way make a better life for your kids. That is a good mum coming up with a good plan.

Rabbit, I don't think he would genuinely want to have the kids 50/50 because of his love of sending time with them but I could see him requesting it to be difficult and make things as hard for me as possible. We had friends that split and the Dad requested 50/50 (despite having done bugger all to help with the kids before that). Eventually the mum gave in as she felt like she had no other option and it was awful for them all and the kids struggled constantly going from house to house. My husband felt that the Dad did the right thing as "why should he not get the kids half the time when his wife decided their marriage was over". I think he would try to do similar if I'm the one to end things and I wouldn't put it past him drastically reducing his work hours to make it more feasible (he's often hinted he would like me back at work full time so that he can go part time to help with his health issues)

Rabbit, there was no need to be rude in your second comment. I never said that I'm doing a good job at protecting them, in fact I said that I know it is is affecting them which is why I'm trying to work out what to do. If I could guarantee they would only be with him every other weekend I would end things today. The reality is that if he is difficult and tries to get 50/50 then they would end up spending a lot more time with him than they do now (I do school pick ups, homework with them, drop off/pick up from clubs, dinner time & bedtime every evening but if they were with him he would obviously have to. The odd time he does new it ends up with the kids sobbing and him shouting, every time). You really didn't have to say I'm doing a shit job, I'm a good Mum who has been trying her best in a difficult situation. I love my kids and only want the best for them which is why I'm lookin at the logistics and realities of divorce

Thank you nolongerblue

I’m very sorry you are in this position. A lot of solicitors give their first hour free (I believe) so maybe ring a family solicitor and explain your position and ask if someone can give you some advice on all this?
I have a very close friend who has lead your life, a very shouty partner, she has stuck it out for the children. I know if she had a crystal ball she would have left him, her children do exactly as you say, they shout at her as I think it’s learnt behaviour from their Dad. She’s a wonderful mum but it’s a battle when you don’t have a good partner for your influence to be enough.

Thank you Janus. I did go and speak to some one a few weeks ago. It helped me to get my head around where I would be financially and was advised on how to approach the issue of child residency access. They advised that it could be different for each child eg. Dad collects them all Saturday morning and drops younger two back later that day and eldest stays with him that night and some of next day and gradually increase the time as they all get older. If dad didn't like that then it would go to court and that's quite an unknown. Unfortunately it's given me a lot more questions and doubts so I privacy need to find someone whose who would give an initial free consultation again

Have you considered contacting either Womens Aid or the Rights of Women organisations (I presume you are UK based). Either could help you further here with regards to separation and your concerns re his access.

I do not think he will let go of you at all easily and will make all aspects of separating from him very difficult. He may well use these children as pawns or punishment against you for having the gall in his eyes to leave him by being obstructive over his children as well. He may well utter comments about wanting 50/50 but he won't likely ultimately gain such access. Such selfish men as well only think of their own selves too.

You are married to him and have legal rights here re a financial settlement. You certainly need to find a solicitor who is well versed in the ways of manipulative men. I would not recommend mediation with him under any circumstances; you are not safe to do mediation with him and besides which it is never recommended where there is abuse present.

No I haven't Attila. I suppose I always thought of women's aid and similar organisations helping in DV cases where there was physical abuse. It has taken me a long long time to see that there was EA in my marriage. I met my husband when I was 17 and it was my first relationship (he was 25) so I was very niaive and didn't realise that a partner being controlling/rude etc. Was anything unusual. This weren't this bad in the early days though, it has certainly spiralled since having children and not agreeing on parenting styles.

I didn't realise that about mediation and abuse. If access couldn't be agreed amicably is court then the only option?

Those organisations are primarily for women like yourself who are caught up in abusive relationships. Abuse is not just physical in nature and what you are describing is domestic violence (there is also financial abuse present because he is controlling with money).

I would not count on him being at all amicable going forward either; he is truly not your friend here and will look actively into punishing you further for leaving him. What real life support do you have in terms of family and friends?.

Courts do not default to 50:50 so its a risk but also likely he would get reduced time.

My ex was abusive, only to me and then to dc once we separated.Whilst its hard for them they still benefit as I show them a "normal" family life.It means that they are less tolerant with their dad and they are less likely to treat future spouses in the same way.Cycle has a chance to be broken.I guess he was raised like this?

I can't protect my dc fully because he is their parent however as they get older their views count which isn't a choice for them today if you stay.
It is a horrible situation to be in but no child deserves to be abused, if this was a teacher you would leave the school?

I would definitely line up support, use womens aid, attend meetings, line up family and work out finances before telling him.
I naively assumed ex would be reasonable but its been awful.Do I regret it? No, because now there is consistent peace and laughter in the house.My dc say I have changed in a positive way as I am not walking on eggshells.Your H is a bully and likely to get worse as the children get older.

I thought that i was doing the best for my daughter by staying with her EA father. Then i read some testimonies from children who grew up in abusive homes, not abusive to the children as such but abusive to the othrr parent and all of them said that they wished the abused parent had left when they were young because they have issues as adults. That was the final push that i needed to leave my husband.
Use the help that is out there. Womens Aid, CAB re finances.

You're absolutely right lifebegins, if it was a teacher at school I would move the kids straight away. It just feels so much more complicated than that but I know things can't carry on as they are

Harry2006, how are things now? Is your daughter happier? How much time does your ex have with her each week now?

Would a parenting course help or are things way past that? I suspect that they are. I just never thought I'd be facing being a single Mum with 3 children now :(

Things are way past that (and besides which a parenting course is never going to at all address his emotional abuse of you). You would be better off without your H being a millstone around your neck.

Thank you Attila, my gut instinct was that we are way past that. The hard thing is that it comes in cycles, the last couple of days haven't been too bad for me or the children and it almost makes me feel as if I'm going mad, that maybe I'm imagining it to have been worse than it was.

Needsleepnow i have just this week started divorce proceedings. He has his snide remarks to me but he is ok with our daughter, over compensating even when, like yours, did very little with her. We are still living in the same house due to finances. Have you anyone to support you in particular with your children. I would definately see another solicitor and ask about your concerns.

Harry2006 that must be really hard still having to live together. Luckily I have a good support network from family and friends who I'm sure would help me if I need it. I recently told my family how bad things had got and it was such a relief to tell someone. I haven't confided in friends yet, I suppose I've been clinging to hope that things might improve so not wanting to say anything

Needsleepnow,

re your comment:-

"The hard thing is that it comes in cycles, the last couple of days haven't been too bad for me or the children and it almost makes me feel as if I'm going mad, that maybe I'm imagining it to have been worse than it was"

What you are describing here is the cycle of abuse; the nice/nasty cycle and that is a continuous one. Its no relationship model either to be showing your children, this is the very last thing they need. Your children too are NOT going to say thanks mum to you for staying with him, they could well accuse you of putting him before them.

Start telling more people about your H; do not keep his abuse of you (and in turn your kids) a secret any longer. Abuse like you describe also thrives on secrecy. Go to them and at the very least also contact Womens Aid; they can and will help you here too.

You're also going to have to let go ultimately of the thought that things may improve; there is usually only one way such relationships go and that is down. He wants to drag you and in turn your kids down with him into his pit.

Things cannot carry on as they are; its only going to get worse for you. You still have a choice re this man, they do not.

My abusive F was exactly like this, he could be really loving but then really controlling. I can see it now, how he was treating my DM. He expressed love for her, brought her coffee every morning, but then he would accuse her of being unfaithful to him. He would give us presents but then say they actually belonged to him because he'd bought them. He would say that our bedrooms were his because he'd bought the house. We weren't allowed privacy even as teenagers. He used to agree to things and then deny he'd ever done so.

It's just so confusing, Jekyll and Hyde. I suspect it's the reason why we were able to suppress the memories of his abuse, we only remembered the good bits.

Don't allow your DCs to end up as messed up instead as DSis and I are, and my brother, too, he's seriously mentally ill. Staying together for the sake of the children is just so misguided.

You can do this.

Lizzie, my husband has said both those things to the kids before about presents belonging to him as he bought them and the bedrooms etc. being his as he bought the house. He's said it quite a few times about it being his house, my son even said it to me one time and I told him that no it was all our house, that Daddy and I bought it for everyone to live in but my son just said no Mummy, Daddy told me that it is his house as HE bought it (it is actually a joint mortgage in both names). Jekyll & Hyde is the perfect way to describe him

You are right Attila, I know deep down that leaving is the only option to help my children long term. I just feel like it is such a difficult task while I am not working and have no income/access to savings etc. I am trying to work out if it is best to go now and sell the house or if I wait a bit longer and end things when I have a job as that way I might be able to keep the house so it is less upheaval for the children