Fucking fucked off

[lentlily]

NC for this. And it's long, sorry.

Have been with my DP for 7 years, we each have a child from previous relationships, and a 4 month old baby together.

My relationship with my DSD who is 11 is best described as difficult. Her behaviour has always been a bit hard to take, although certain aspects have improved over the years, things like her attitude have got worse. For example, she simply cannot be told 'no'. She speaks to my partner like a piece of shit when she's in a mood, calling him by his first name instead of Dad, so it sounds like 2 adults having an argument, and will make goady comments to try and get a reaction, ie telling him he's got no friends or he's got 'an anger problem' (he hasn't').

Much of this is due to the way her mum parents her and her home life when at her mum's so I try to let it wash over me.

My DP is very tolerant and calm and doesn't let the behaviour wind him up. But to my mind he's too tolerant and perhaps if he was firmer, things wouldn't be as bad as they are. He literally won't use the word 'no' because of the reaction it brings. So for example DSD asks for takeaway for tea and instead of saying no, DP will ignore her, pretend he hasn't heard so she repeats the question 3 or 4 times, then he will repeat it back as if it's a wondrous prospect, before eventually suggesting something else for tea, all without actually saying 'no'. She's got excited that she might be allowed takeaway by this point so kicks off anyway! To me, this is just pandering and not doing your job as a parent.

I don't really have any parenting input now with her because, effectively, I'm scared to. I used to, and by parenting input I mean really basic adult carer stuff like telling her not to climb on something or to eat nicely or guide her on manners etc, because she would blatantly do the opposite of what I asked or just straight out ignore me. I had no way to escalate things as she's so defiant that it would have turned into a stand off and I didn't want that in our early step parent/child relationship. So I would turn to my DP for help and support in whatever the issue was, and he'd pretend he couldn't hear it/hadn't noticed whatever it was. So DSD would get away with it and I was left feeling frustrated and impotent. I feel like my role in this house is some kind of lodger who cooks and does the washing. I have tried so many times to discuss this with DP but he does absolutely nothing to make changes. He's a classic Disney dad.

This has resulted in me being overly strict with my DS who is now 8, in an attempt to parent DSD through sort of osmosis! In contrast, my DS is very relaxed and has an excellent relationship with his stepmum. Im happy this is the case but it does make me feel an extra bit shit for my failures as a step parent!

Anyway, all this aside, I overheard a conversation yesterday between my DSD and my DP's mother, in which DSD was saying she wouldn't want her dad to get married to me.

My DP and I have discussed marriage, I have always been keen and he was initially too. Over the years though he has chucked every excuse imaginable at me: you're not divorced yet (I am now and have been for 6 years)/ I can't afford the ring you deserve/the wedding I'd like/I don't believe in marriage/I want to propose as a surprise/we don't need to get married.

Now I'm not completely stupid, I can see I'm being fed a line. However, we've bought a house together and had a child so on the one hand he's committed to us. And hope is a stupid thing, it's always there. I find myself wondering on special occasions/weekends away whether this will be the time he'll finally propose.

I think now I overheard that conversation though, it's clear the reason he hasn't is because his daughter doesn't want him to. I feel he knew this and instead of discussing it with me to try and work it out he's just buried his head in the sand and ignored it.

So I feel like a bit of an idiot. All those times I've secretly wondered if he'll be about to propose, he had no intention of it, and never will. He'll never change his parenting to benefit the whole family as he's too scared to and I'm now stuck in this relationship feeling unvalued and fucked off, not wanting to uproot my 2 children, not wanting to disrupt the stable environment my DSD has (because believe it or not this home is a calmer more consistent and happy one than her mums).

My DP is aware I overheard the conversation but hasn't bothered to ask if I'm ok.

Please know that I have tried with my DSD I really have. I thought I'd be a good step mum and I've always 100% supported him to put her first and know she's just a child who never asked to be in a step family.

God that was long, I'm sorry. Well done if you made it to the end without dying of boredom.

Not even sure what I'm looking for, just needed to rant.

Ugh I am sorry OP. Have you sat him down and asked him if dsd commands he ends your relationship whether he would do it?

You need to put your foot down and demand the respect you deserve and his honesty.

You need some alone time on neutral territory, all cards on the table talk time.

It's quite clear that his default reaction to any problem is ignore ignore ignore. It does need talking through, your right. I wonder if counselling would work because when I try and initiate any serious discussion, it turns into me feeling like I'm haranguing him and he just sits there pretty much in silence.

I suspect that if she demanded that he'd probably just try and placate her and ignore it and hope it would all go away

• you're

A lot of the way she is talking and behaving sounds to me like a fairly typical eleven year old trying out 'being grown up'. She's testing to see how much power she really has in the world, and dad is an excellent person to try this out on. Would your DP really not marry you on the say so of an eleven year old? When the set up you have is already pretty much marriage, just without the ring (and the protection)?

Because that is your problem, if so. Your DP, not his daughter. Maybe ask him what he fears will happen between him and his DD if you do marry? Will she refuse to see him? Because I think she may be being given too much power over a situation that is nothing to do with her, if so.

God - his only way of dealing with any emotional issues is to ignore them and hope they'll go away?

He's making a rod for his own back here, and unfortunately you are getting caught up in the fallout caused by his spinelessness. I would find it hard to feel any real respect for him tbh. Do you really want to live in a relationship like this?

You need to level with him before she gets older and even more difficult to manage

I've always acknowledged that she is the product of her upbringing. I don't blame her for the way she behaves, I blame him (and the other adults in her life) for allowing her to think her behaviour is acceptable.

He is petrified that one day she will say she doesn't want to visit him, hence his permissive parenting style. The ironic thing is, she loves it here. She never wants to go to her mums, she is here way more than 50% of the time anyway, plus when she is supposed to be in her mums care, her mum is often out so grandparents look after her. She asks to come and live here permanently and even asked recently if there was a way I could collect her from school when my DP is at work to enable her to be here more often.

So yes, I have 'a DP problem' rather than a DSD problem

And no, when I really think about it I don't respect him. I never thought I'd be with someone who I consider weak in that way.

In other ways he's wonderful, and of course this is just one facet of our life and relationship. If it was all shit, I wouldn't have stuck around for so long

I think that DSD is a big red herring - you have a DP problem - not a DSD problem. His refusal to set any boundaries or want to be the "bad guy" are at the root of your problems.

To be totally honest a lot of what you are calling DSD's "bad behaviour" is actually rather normal pre-teen/puberty fuelled behaviour. One of our kids called DH by his first name for a period of 3 years. I don't regard it as speaking to him like shit. Why does it matter to you? DH just ignored it as it didn't bother him but I remember my DM was horrified.

Nagging for stuff is also pretty common - the problem is your DH. Why does he find it so hard to say "we're not having takeout today"? he could shut down these expectations at once but chooses not to. Does he generally want to be the Disney dad?

Perhaps you should go to counselling to try and figure out why he doesn't want to parent his child.

@Lunde sorry, I might not have made it clear, she doesn't refer to his by his first name in general conversation, it's if she is being challenged or told off about something. And it's in this awful sarcastic arsy voice (to be honest I can hear her mother talking like that to her and her and her older sibling, it's just learnt behaviour but if it was up to me it would be squa used straight away. DP just lets it happen).

I.e let's say DP is called Bob
DP - please can you not do that/do this
DSD - alright Bob, calm down, no need for the anger problem. Oh well done Bob, look what you made me do?! Look at you Bob, you've got no friends have you. Good one'. Etc etc

Why are people saying this is normal pre teen behaviour? It isnt. It is bad behaviour, excuses or no excuses. Your partner needs to pull his finger out of his arse and start being a proper parent. He sounds wet. If he doesnt agree to personally i would ltb, as this will only get worse. The silly, silly man.

I wonder if it might be time for you to step up a bit in parenting your dsd? It’s no longer “early” in your relationship. Sit down with her and your ds and discuss appropriate boundaries and consequences. I’ve found dc generally respond well to being part of these decisions and it is a huge relief to a child to have an adult with sensible, calm boundaries.

I’m not criticizing your description of your dsd’s behaviour but I think if you take away the lens of a “calm, tolerant” dad, what you have described is a child craving normal attention. He ignores normal questions (eg the take away) and at other times she goads for a reaction. Not reacting can be a great behavioral response to problem behavior if she can access quality attention at other times and it doesn’t sound like this is the case at all.

It’s not your responsibility (or in your power) to make your dp step up or change his nature. What you do have control over is your interaction with her. Think carefully about appropriate responses to challenging behaviors that you can calmly enforce when you’re pushed to the limits. Mild and consistent is more effective than anything else. (These are only meant as gentle suggestions for what you might be able to change, not criticisms )

Talking of boundaries though, perhaps it’s time to take a look at your own in this relationship. Leaving aside the emotional and romantic side of a proposal, there are protections afforded by marriage. How vulnerable is your position at present? You could approach a solicitor to explore what legal provisions you might be wise to put in place. For instance, have you both wills? In the event of either of you being in a coma you would not be “next of kin” for making medical decisions, how long would bank acs and assets be frozen in the event of a death, etc. Marriage can be a convenient legal shortcut, but if it’s not an option, you could still insist on other measures.

I suspect your DSD is unhappy and needs better boundaries and more of a life with her dad not being Woolley and rubbish

Talk to your DP

I think by your posts, you've seen your dp for the man he is.

Now the issue is can you spend the rest of your life (unmarried as he doesn't want to marry you) with this man...

I would ask your DO to do couples and family therapy. You can dangle the carrot that you would have DSD if he started parenting her appropriately and gives her what she NEEDS.

for your DSD having 2 parents that won't parent her and for you

Thank you all for your responses, I have to admit I was was worried I'd get treated as the wicked stepmother in all this and im grateful for the reasoned kind replies 😊.

@Annwithnoe thanks for your long lost, some very good points in there that I'm going to take on board, especially advice on my reaction/response to her behaviour.

I do love DP, as I said he's lovely in so many ways and I'm so saddened at the state of my relationship with my DSD. If that was better, life would be almost perfect. I'll see if counselling might be an option ....

it turns into me feeling like I'm haranguing him and he just sits there pretty much in silence

This is stonewalling and often common with the passive aggressive behaviour you describe.
The description you give of the takeaway is just frustrating for dsd and this will get worse as she gets older.

It doesn't surprise me that your relationship with dsd is poor and I feel its a consequence of your DPs behaviour, he is quietly holding the power, whilst not appearing to do so.

What was his childhood like growing up?

Once the respect is gone the whole thing is on shaky ground.

He’s not right to “put her first”. That’s one of the problems. She’s one of three children in your household. Your son has divorced parents too which he didn’t ask for and no one’s giving him a free ride to behave rudely and unpleasantly.

There’s not much you can if he won’t engage. I understand it’s something you’ve wanted, which is completely understandable, but I wouldn’t want to marry him right now. He’s basically been lying to you and stringing you along with the promise it’ll happen at some point and you now know he was playing you. You didn’t buy your house or plan your baby with one of you deciding it and the other going along with it. Marriage, especially with children in the mix already, is a big decision and if it means a lot to you then it’s cards on the table time and you need a big chat. But before that, I’d make counselling for the two of you a deal breaker. He’s refusing to talk to you which is NOT OKAY. He’s choosing to be a passenger in your life and it’s not enough.

He’s also letting his DD treat you both appallingly. Utter bollocks to the idea that it’s just what kids that age do. I’d have been in a world of trouble if I’d pulled that crap with my parents and I don’t imagine you’ll let your son get away with it.

You say she wants to spend more and more time at your place, so why is he so scared to put boundaries and expectations in place? Or does she only want to be there because there are no rules?

You’re right. He’s not parenting her and she’s going to turn into a nightmare as she grows up. She’ll have trouble at school and struggle with her peers if she treats everyone like shit. It’s his job to help her grow into a decent human being. And if he is trying and expects her to treat others with respect, why does he have such low standards for her attitude to him?

I don’t envy you at all. But I think the chat you overheard is a potential turning point. He’s rampantly taking the piss and you need to tackle it. More of the same is going to mean more of the same.