Insane school uniform rules

[Incredulousme]

I have two DC's at secondary school. My DD is year 10 and DS year 8. It's a great school all round (outstanding Ofsted) apart from their insane rules regarding school uniform.

Uniform for girls

White short sleeved shirt with tie, scotch plaid pleated skirt (only allowed slightly above knee) and jumper. Thick black tights (must be plain and not see-through) Girls have the option to wear grey trousers.

Uniform for boys

White short sleeved shirt with tie, grey trousers and jumper.

My argument is this, two complaints if you like. Girls are not allowed to wear ankle socks or indeed any kind of socks with the skirts and have to wear ridiculously thick tights (thick because thin are see-through which is against rules) all year round. Great in winter but on very hot days you can only imagine how horrible this is and how sweaty and sore they can get.

My second gripe is that neither boys or girls are allowed to take their jumpers off when walking around (inside) school. They are to be kept on at all times when moving between lessons, queuing for lunch and in the dining hall. They are also to be worn in the library. If they are too hot in class they must ask permission to remove it but must put it back on before leaving that particular classroom. They are allowed to remove them outside at break.

AIBU to think this is insane? With regards to the 'tights rule' for girls I have asked on several occasions about the possibility of socks with skirts but told that this is out of the question as sometimes the children are required to sit on the floor. I agree my DD could wear the trousers but why should she have to?

They both came home yesterday melting (yes I know it's lovely sunshine) having worn jumpers most of the day. It's a very busy school and the corridors are packed at lesson change times yet they are forced to wear jumpers!!!! It's mad surely???

The library is a great place for revision but I'm sure having to sit in a jumper on hot days does not make it a very comfortable experience. And yes, I do believe in rules and more than happy to adhere to most but sometimes a little common sense is needed.

" Strict uniform policy leads to better behaviour in the classroom" "

got a link to any studies that back that up?

No? Thought not.

'Enforcing uniform rules that make kids uncomfortable for no reason other than to cultivate discipline for the sake of it is the school going on a power trip.'

This. And I would add 'and slightly sadistic and a pseudo-nostalgic throwback to some utopia of neat disciplined children that never existed.'

FFS! I wonder how any kids in European schools, like the ones my dc go to, ever get an education, with the authority-subverting non-uniform anarchy that reigns in their classrooms. Oh, wait...

Enforcing uniform rules that make kids uncomfortable for no reason other than to cultivate discipline for the sake of it is the school going on a power trip.

What possible legitimate reason could a school or individual teacher have for not letting someone remove a blazer or jumper in hot weather, especially when teachers are allowed to dress comfortably?

Physical punishment of pupils is illegal everywhere in the UK, right? So how is it defensible essentially to punish them with physical discomfort when they haven't even done anything wrong?

@LandofTute

Oh there's a link to the uniform supplier so we can try those trousers....@£16.50

I'm going to ask if she can wear socks not tights. Tights flare up Dds eczema and the last pair she wore had to be soaked off after her eczema got infected and they stuck to her legs causing open sores on her legs...

She's refused them ever since. Ideally leggings would be the go to option under a skirt

Kids here in one school missed 45 minutes of education because, although they had the right brand of school shoes, the sole was 5mm too thick, talk about beyond ridiculous.

I really don't understand why your DD isn't allowed to wear ankle socks with her knee length skirt. Only a tiny part of the leg is shown. The jumper rule is ridiculous. I wonder why the head teacher finds it so offensive to show skin...

Even if a school/Head DOES believe that strict uniform policy leads to better behaviour in the classroom, why don't they include warm weather options in the strict policy?

IE:

"Summer uniform - short sleeved shirts may be worn (ties must be worn unless the Head gives special permission). Ankle/knee socks can be worn with skirts (must be X colour and plain). Optional gingham dress in X colour.

In hot weather, pupils do not have to wear a jumper or blazer, but must remain smartly turned out."

Easy.

Hmmm - italicisation fail there - sorry.

I havent read the full thread so forgive me if this has already been said.

Two things that spring to mind - the health implications of the uniform policy. The thick tights are setting girls up for cystitis, bladder infections and yeast infections in the heat.

The whole policy is setting all the children up for dehydration, and everything that comes with that. Yes they can ask to remove their jumpers during class but i know children that wont do that because they are so shy.

If the tights is a dignity issue, mixed school dont want the girls flashing when they sit on the floor, can you not suggest the girls wearing say gym knickers under their skirts if they wear short socks, or even shorts. That should cover the issues of concern.

I would go down the health root of the policy rather than the batshit craziness of it.

When it was 27° here on Thurs I came back from school run in the afternoon, stripped down to my pants and sat in front of a fan for 20mins. I was a hot sweaty mess. A jumper would probably see me faint or perhaps melt.

On the other hand I don't think it often gets cold enough for proper jumpers in the UK. I wear them occasionally over winter. I'd like to see what people would say if kids were forced to not wear warm clothes in winter.

Everyone is different. I'm regularly too hot at work while the women on the next desk to me wraps herself in scarves and blankets.

I used to be a teacher. I loved teaching on non uniform days. No faffing about uniform, straight into the lesson.

Oh I absolutely hated stupid school rules like this!
And what always got me was....
Teachers in nearly every lesson “you’re going to be adults soon, you need to grow up and act responsible and take responsibility for your schooling and actions”
Sex Ed and PSE type lessons, “don’t be a sheep, don’t do/try things because friends do, don’t do anything you don’t want to do” all that.
Hot day and you ask “can I take my jumper off sir” and it’s “no it’s not that warm, you can’t feel too hot”
hmm, but aren’t I supposed to know how I feel!!

I prefer trousers for both sexes, as skirts can be an issue with length and girls with orange legs are not a good look for the school. However, if skirts are an option then I think girls should be able to wear skirts with socks. It's easy to say that the girls should just wear trousers if they don't want to wear tights, but unless trousers are compulsory for both sexes then there can be a lot of pressure of girls to wear the skirt to fit in.

I prefer blazers to jumpers if the school is insisting the kids not travel to and from school in shirt sleeves, they are more easily removed. I think kids should be able to wear shirt sleeves in lessons without asking for permission.

We used to stick to the rule bout wearing it home. As by that point you had massive sweat patches on your shirt and blazer so couldn't remove them for shame. Remember getting home and jumping straight in the shower stinking.

Those rules are ridiculous and mainly about control.
Also, to me, they send out a strong message that the school doesn't trust that students can think for themselves.
Isn't school supposed to be preparing young people to go out into the world, prepared and ready for anything?
But while you're there, you can't be trusted to regulate your own body temperature.
Bet none of the teachers are wearing jumpers.

sparkly
My guess on the socks front is because what can happen is that plain ankle socks actually end up being over thr knee socks and skirts rolled up (think the Ann Summers school girl look). People usually try to go down the route 'but who would say that's inappropriate? If you think it's inappropriate then you shouldn't teach'. Bottom line is it's not school attire.

I think some uniform rules are silly, others well and truly unreasonable. Others are pickier than I would like but exist because give an inch and people take.a mile.

The uniform is the thin end of the wedge. There are now schools that do not allow students to talk to each other on the corridor in between lessons. It's all about control and enforcing the school 'ethos' (ideology).

I am not a massive fan of uniform anyway and seeing the school had these sorts of rule would have informed my decision whether or not to apply to send my kids there. My ds will be going to a non uniform school which allows kids to express themselves as individuals. There is a dress code - the gist of which is no bare midrifs and don’t shown your knickers!

To tell kids they have to keep jumpers on and wear thick tights in summer is just rediculous. Rules for the sake of it. They know if they are hot or not.

We used to doss off school because of the uniform policies in summer - early 2000's, very similar to your school OP. We could wear knee high socks but also had to wear ties etc.

The teachers NEVER let you take your jumpers off; I still see Mrs bloody Gardner in Biology in a sleeveless top saying 'WE'RE ALL WARM IVENOIDEA'

I remember a couple of kids passing out but from May-July, school was a horrible place to be.

From what I see of the kids walking home now, the rules are relaxed as the girls wear socks and blouses.

I wouldn't send my child to a school with such strict rules; it speaks volumes about their pastoral care. School should care more about how their children feel as opposed to how they look.

@gileswithachainsaw might you be able to get away with black leggings over pulled up black ankle socks. DD2 does this for school as she is very hard on tights and her HOY agreed that this was a neater look than (accidentally on purpose) ripped tights. As you have a medical reason I think the school would be very unreasonable not to agree this.

My DDs school is very sensible in this situation...in the the hot weather the text comes out that they can wear their pe kit to school. This serves to keep the children comfortable whilst still wearing an identifiable uniform

The two are linked: strict uniform policy leads to better behaviour in the classroom

No it doesn't. We are practically on our own in the world in having school uniform, yet far further down the educational league tables internationally than we ought to be.

Time for a mass protest at that school if the leadership team are not listening. Everyone wearing skirts and ankle socks. They can't send everyone home. Also if parents can make their views known about arbitrary and unfair rules on Parentview, which is taken into account by Ofsted inspectors.

Firstly I'd like to say that I don't think the school uniform seems unreasonable at all. Secondly, I'd like to ask; did you not realise about the uniform before your children enrolled in their school? I assume you knew what their uniforms would be before they started there, if you were unhappy, couldn't they have gone to a different school?