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OLD and Brexit

50 replies

Killerquestion · 18/04/2018 15:12

Have just joined a fairly respectable OLD site and have been chatting away to someone who revealed he voted for Brexit. I voted against. My initial interest has been well and truly dampened.

Do you think you could go out with someone who voted and had completely polar opposite beliefs to you politically (and not just on Brexit), even if you liked other things about them?

OP posts:
Aminuts23 · 18/04/2018 18:07

I voted leave. I am not racist nor stupid (thank you previous poster 😳). I am intelligent with my own thoughts and opinions. I also respect those who voted remain. It was a choice we all made on non complete information. I’m open to listening to sensible reasoned arguments either way and it wouldn’t put me off dating anyone.

I would never ever date anyone who bands about words like stupid and racist because I dared to have a different opinion to them.

I’ve no doubt some people voted brexit for racist reasons. But actually branding everyone that voted that way stupid or racist is in itself a bigoted point of view. The anger I have encountered about this has been frankly intimidating on occasions.

I think people can have differing opinions on this issue whilst having the same moral beliefs. Absolutely. If they show each other respect. Sadly in some recent situations I have found some remain voters anything but respectful.

Anyway I’m going off track, bin him, he’s married 😜

Killerquestion · 18/04/2018 18:12

@aminuts23 already binned. And blocked.

OP posts:
DumbleDee · 18/04/2018 18:28

Nope. Pro brexit Daily Mail reader or a profile pic of them with their car would all be a no from me.

Blaablaablaa · 18/04/2018 18:33

@dumble judgemental, lazy stereotyping, snobbery...would be a no from me

velourvoyageur · 18/04/2018 20:59

Brexit directly (negatively) affects me & my family but I wouldn't dismiss a Leave voter out of hand. Surprised at the responses here. Think we can be a bit too ready to allow Brexit to polarise.

I was recently seeing someone whose views on gender were totally the opposite to mine and it wasn't really a problem. You separate the person from their opinions and don't let it cancel out all their good qualities (obvs to a reasonable degree!).

prettyaverage · 18/04/2018 21:28

Some people replying to this thread need to take a long, hard look at themselves. They speak of the stupid, racist blob that are the Brexit voters, how they are narrow minded and insular and backward thinking, but it's rarely the Brexit voter asking whether or not they could possibly bring themselves to associate with people of differing opinions, it's rarely the Brexit voter resorting to petty name calling.

There's currently a thread "what do men want?". Most of the replies that I have read seem to suggest that most men are individuals who want different things and how awful to lump all men together. Surely the same goes for Brexit voters? How dehumanising some of you are!

Thank you very much,
Just another brexiteer who happens to be open minded, reasonably intelligent, not racist and respectful of others opinions!

mostdays · 18/04/2018 21:43

To be fair, the replies from Brexiters here have been quite silly so far and seem to be becoming more so. Are some of you really that offended by the idea that your support of Brexit would make you an undesirable partner for many people? Really? Get over yourselves a bit! I wouldn't expect a passionate Brexiter or a Tory voter or a very religious person to want to date me, because things that matter very much to them, I stand in opposition to. And I certainly wouldn't want to date them either.

SevenStones · 18/04/2018 21:47

Some people replying to this thread need to take a long, hard look at themselves. They speak of the stupid, racist blob that are the Brexit voters

One person. Just one. Not some or they. One.

how they are narrow minded and insular and backward thinking

And no-one at all on here has said that. You're putting words into people's mouths whilst accusing them of name calling.

Typeractive · 18/04/2018 22:02

I voted Leave and would definitely be open to dating someone who voted Remain. It's not that I don't care; on the contrary, I'm passionate about politics. But I like to have my views challenged. There's nothing better than a good argument with a clever well-informed friend!

Mythologies · 18/04/2018 22:11

Coming late to to thread and completely missing the point .... please tell me that Idris Elba did not vote leave ... I might not recover.

Aminuts23 · 18/04/2018 22:16

@mostdays what a condescending post. I have not seen any ‘brexiteers’ here assuming that they are undesired partners AT ALL! Personally I think what is trying to be said is that the quiet majority of us who get dragged into debates about this get labelled thick and racist. A PP has labelled us this on this thread. That in itself is insulting and bigoted.

The very idea that in a democracy people who voted one way can ‘label’ the opposite thinkers like this is really sad. It’s demeaning of an intelligent democratic society.

I don’t presume to assume that I have all of the answers. Nor do I believe the remainers have. However I am willing to listen and think and consider. I don’t throw labels about and I never would. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else because of the way I voted. I exercised my democratic right the same as you.

In relation to morals and core beliefs, I work every single day with the people who need the biggest help in our society. I champion the underdog and fight every day for my beliefs and the rights of others so please don’t dare to assume my mind. I fight our government against injustices for people of all nationalities who are struggling every day just to survive.

Your references to racist stupid people are frankly stupid and intolerant in themselves.

LellyMcKelly · 18/04/2018 22:17

No, couldn’t do it to myself or them. It’s likely to have a significant negative impact on my industry and is already causing redundancies and reduced demand. I’m still angry at the sheer, bloody, utter, pointlessness of it.

Brokenbiscuit · 18/04/2018 22:28

No, I don't think I could date someone who voted for Brexit. I'm too angry about it and still can't forgive those who voted for it.

WhollyFather · 18/04/2018 23:19

I certainly wouldn't date anyone who voted to remain for personal or selfish reasons (' a significant negative impact on 'my' industry), or who wanted the UK to be ruled from Brussels by unelected foreigners.

velourvoyageur · 18/04/2018 23:59

Ah see that was all seeming quite reasonable until the 'foreigners' bit.

SevenStones · 19/04/2018 00:16

Or even the unelected bit.

OLD and Brexit
Dissimilitude · 19/04/2018 07:54

The Greeks are very comforted by how very democratic the EU is, as it repeatedly manipulates Greece’s democracy, enforces a financial Carthaginian peace on its people that is contrary to all economic sense.

I’m sure the youth of Southern Europe were all very happy about all those fair elections when their jobless economies laboured under the wealth transfer mechanism that is the Euro. When youth unemployment across places like Spain topped 50% back in 2013 (incidentally forcing much use of the much-cherished free movement), I’m sure they were kept warm at night at the thought of the freely elected, yet utterly indifferent institutions people mistake for giving a shit.

People who slate the tories for their economically illiterate austerity really ought to look into the EU. It’s an ordoliberal institution to its core.

Typeractive · 19/04/2018 08:26

I'm nodding frantically at all of your posts, Dissimilitude. Sounds like we voted Leave for very similar reasons.

PaskinRobbin · 19/04/2018 09:14

I certainly couldn’t date a Brexiter. I have a few friends who are Brexiters (not many but a few) and that’s different. We can disagree but I don’t have to live with them or have sex with them. It’s too divisive an issue. And ultimately, if you talk for long enough, in my experience what most Brexiters really have a problem with is immigration and foreigners, which is an attitude I simply cannot abide or tolerate.

As an aside, the worn-out Lexit arguments about Greece and Southern Europe are total nonsense. Issues there had nothing really to do with the EU. Greece basically was bankrupt because successive governments cooked the books to join the Euro and failed to collect taxes on an institutional scale. They had the option of leaving the Euro or fixing their finances in order to stay in. It was their choice, and I note that the Greek government still has no intention of leaving the EU or the Euro.

Check out what Portugal is doing as a full member of the EU and the Euro. Their government is to the left even of Corbyn, their economy is booming, state aid is widely used, as is nationalisation, and austerity is dead there. I don’t see many Brexiters congratulating the EU for the success Portugal is having. Are they only to blame for the bad things that happen in Europe and not the good? And it clearly illustrates the whole “neoliberal club” argument is a lie.

Ultimately the EU is about stopping a race to the bottom on wages and working and human rights. To be in the club you have to accept this “red tape”. Without it countries would instead compete with the likes of China by lowering wages and rights. It’s essentailly a cooperative of like minded countries. What could be more left wing than that?

Dissimilitude · 19/04/2018 09:51

"Lexit arguments about Greece and Southern Europe are total nonsense. Issues there had nothing really to do with the EU. They had the option of leaving the Euro or fixing their finances in order to stay in"

That is false. They had everything to do with the EU, and particularly the Euro. It is a structural problem. This argument is another variety of morality tale of the same kind that Tories make to poor people - "pull your socks up, it's your own fault this has happened to you". No one denies Greece had issues, but those issues were inevitable and predictable given the structure of the Euro.

The Eurozone is pretty much the opposite of an optimal currency area. Almost everything seen since follows on as a consequence of this one bad decision:

  • Germans get to pretend they're not super efficient, by locking themselves in a currency union with Greeks + Italians, so they get a depressed currency and an export boom that ensures their prosperity at the direct expense of southern europe, whilst at the same time lecturing them that they should "just be more German". Except by definition not everyone can run huge trade surpluses at the same time, like the Germans do. Someone has to buy.
  • Southern europe gets to borrow at close to German rates, hence a borrowing boom. But being locked into the Euro, they're getting increasingly uncompetitive with super-productive Germany. Why buy a Fiat or a Seat when the cost difference with a Volkswagon is shrinking? Why hire Italian or Spanish workers when Germans are now almost as cheap? The one major advantage they had is gone.
  • French and German banks get to lend to southern europe in huge amounts for German risk but at above-German profit.

So then the first major external shock comes along (the financial crisis), and surprise surprise, southern europe struggles massively, and northern europe plays the morality tale whilst ignoring their part in creating the mess. You get political division and financial havoc totally exaggerated by the economic structure of the EU.

Yes, some of southern europe is now doing ok, but they achieved this using vicious internal devaluation. That is, austerity on steroids, forcing a drop in living standards so their economies could become competitive again. The thing is, it was all so unnecessary. In the same way austerity in the UK was totally unnecessary.

If these countries had their own currencies, the currency would take the strain, not the people. That's how it's meant to work.

"Ultimately the EU is about stopping a race to the bottom on wages and working and human rights".

It is also about protecting German commercial interests.

PaskinRobbin · 19/04/2018 10:55

Ah yes, I should have expected this sort of replay. Another common theme amongst Brexiters is a rabid dislike/distrust of Germany and Germans. I simply couldn’t imagine being in a loving relationship with someone like that.

Ultimatumately Brexiters are really elitists and nationalists who think that British people are better and more deserving than everyone else.

Dissimilitude · 19/04/2018 11:05

What on earth of what I've said makes you think I'm remotely a nationalist, or thinks that British people are better than everyone else?

As for my "rabid dislike" of Germans, actually I completely admire them for many reasons (strong social safety net, approach to vocational education, manufacturing and small business doctrine etc).

It is not rabidly anti-German to point out they have a very strong self-interest in the current structure, and that this runs contrary to the image portrayed of the 'selfless and progressive EU'.

PinkHeart5914 · 19/04/2018 11:11

Of course all leave voters are stupid racists and kick kittens to death on the weekends so you must never date one OP

ThisIsTheFirstStep · 19/04/2018 11:16

I am very very pro-EU but I'm not so narrow-minded to think anyone who voted Leave must be a racist bigot who hates immigrants. Not everyone likes big government and so on. So it would really depend on their reasons.

If it was 'they're coming over here and takin our jobs' then yeah, I wouldn't date them.

mostdays · 19/04/2018 15:17

@Aminuts23 did you set out to deliberately misunderstand or something?

I have not seen any ‘brexiteers’ here assuming that they are undesired partners AT ALL. Hmm Confused

You really need to re read what I wrote, which was Are some of you really that offended by the idea that your support of Brexit would make you an undesirable partner for many people?. This thread has a number of posts in which people state that they would not want to have a relationship with people who voted for Brexit, and a number of posts in which people who vote for Brexit expressing their annoyance at that. I was questioning why on earth that would annoy/ offend/ irritate/ upset/ bother (one of those words will hopefully be acceptable to you) anyone.

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