Toxic parents - advice please

[Melody25]

I can't imagine ever treating my dc the way my parents, my dm in particular, have always treated me. Right now they are doing their party trick of ghosting me when I don't perform to their expectations, and I hate myself for being awake still at 2am with anxiety that is so ingrained because of them.

I don't even know why they won't speak to me at the moment, I get radio silence every time I don't meet my dm's expectations, and sadly my dad goes along with her for an easier quieter life, I feel sorry for him stuck with her but also resentment he doesn't do or say anything to acknowledge her constant toxic behaviour.

Usually after a week of silence I either get bombarded by dm with obsessive phone calls, voicemails, texts and emails, or if I've been ghosted then by that point the guilt and worry make me call them and try to get back on good terms.

Well this time I decided just to see what happened if I didn't go to them, the pattern is usually that dm rejects me over something ridiculous then goes silent til I contact them, but I've never let it reach much more than a week, probably because of the f.o.g. This time it's been 2 weeks now and still nothing from either of them, I'm in the dark about what I've done this time but it could be that I didn't phone dm and formally thank her for taking one of my dc out for a few hours one afternoon in the holidays. Even though I said thank you at the time and gushed in person, if any occasion, favour or tiny sign of her just basically being a gran to my dc and mum to me isn't formally thanked with a phone call then it's the silent treatment.

They both know I've been ill, dh told them 2 weeks ago I was in a bad way because of my chronic condition, it's another part of me that they make sure I know isn't up to their standards, they still can't accept my condition after 20 years with it. Now my dc are asking why they haven't been taken to visit dm & df last weekend and are asking to see them this coming weekend. I don't want to deprive them if they want to see their gp, so dh was going to take them to see them and I'd stay at home as I'm still currently unwell and housebound. But he's now saying he feels really awkward and uncomfortable with the situation and is asking me to please just phone them up now, because he wants them to babysit for us soon!

I have a brother who lives quite far away and we're not close, I've no idea if he's spoken to them recently and knows about this, he distances himself but still manages to remain the golden boy. A weird part of me wants to see if they never contact me again! Then an anxious part takes over and thinks that they're in their 70's now and maybe I should start looking after them and go back to pandering to dm, and maybe that they're even getting dementia and this worsening behaviour isn't really their fault. I start blaming myself for being a horrible disappointment of a daughter and as I've always been told by dm because of my health issues, nothing but a worry to them. Then I remember the past guilt trips of her saying I should phone more to check on them because they might be lying there dead in their big country house, I'll regret it and miss her when she's gone etc.

I could write pages of history, from past cbt I was told I'd been emotionally abused by my dm, but then blamed myself for making a big deal of things and other people have been through so much worse. Would you go back to the usual pattern and phone them up to make peace if you were me? Even though I can't think of what I've actually done. It could be something v small like mentioning my mil, it's always something blown right up out of proportion and I'm just sick of it. Nothing I do is ever good enough for dm so now I'm thinking why bother anymore? It just makes me feel mentally messed up as well as physically because stress and anxiety make my condition even worse. I'm sick of the games and manipulation, I'm nearly 40 but still dm trying to control me like a child. Would you make contact with them and start the whole cycle again? Maybe we will never speak again if I don't contact them, that's how it feels at the moment, please any advice is appreciated x

Have a read of this book, it's called toxic parents and written by Susan Forward

www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toxic+parents+susan+forward&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1524018488&sr=8-1

I can identify with so much of your post, both from the toxic behaviour of my in-laws and the behaviour of my parents since I became chronically ill. Firstly, I would read what you can on narcissism, your dm sounds very similar to my MIL.

For now, I would not contact your parents, if your dc keep asking, just say that your parents are very busy and change the subject. I would concentrate on protecting yourself and developing boundaries. I thoroughly expect that either your DF or another relative will shortly be fulfilling the role of flying monkey in order to bully you into submission, however, stay strong! Narcissistic Mothers can be incredibly damaging and I would be very wary of the influence your parents have on your dc and the impact that may have on your bond with your own dc.

We are currently nc with inlaws (for 6 wonderful years ) and have scaled back contact with my dp.

My dh and I found some of the following websites very helpful

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201311/the-narcissistic-mother

parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html

www.narcissisticmother.com/

Hi OP, sounds to me like you have a narc mum. Join the club. Those resources that the previous poster recommended are brilliant. Also take a look at Lisa A Romano on YouTube. Her video get me through so much crap. I’m afraid I’m no contact with my dm after she became very angry that my weddding wasn’t more about her and my miscarriages weren’t about her either. This comes after a life time of being ingnored after I do anything she doesn’t like...and who can predict what that may happen to be. It’s not you! Xxx

Silent treatment from parents, oh yes I know all about that My parents are in their 70’s and I’m 53 (an only child) and they’ve been difficult my whole life in this.

My father used to go without speaking for ages. He barely spoke to me at all when I went to college for a year and was totally unsupportive and showed no interest whatsoever. God knows why. I only lasted a year. The atmosphere at home and glowering looks were just hideous. My mother is complicit and can be argumentative and aggressive, very self absorbed and ‘what about me’. They’ve been like it towards each other too during their whole marriage. My father even used to go silent on me when I was small, which looking back was unforgivable as I found it terribly frightening. Sitting at the dinner table in total silence, my dad furious about something.

It’s never felt as though all three of us could get along as a family all at the same time for long. In short I’ve spent my whole life treading on eggshells around them both and when growing up was far more involved with the status quo of their relationship than I should have been. I felt hugely responsible for their happiness (their rows and silences were terrible) and didn’t dare put a foot wrong or what they would perceive as wrong, so as not to rock the already leaky boat. Ive never felt like ‘me’ around them.

Much of your post I can completely identify with. The churning feelings about what to do, who makes the first move, wondering what I’ve done and feeling worried. Then pathetically relived when whatever was going on would suddenly ‘lift’ for no apparent reason and everyone was nice again, until the next time. Usually my mother then going too far the other way and being exceptionally wonderful and magnanimous. Of course nothing was ever talked through. The fact that it ever happens at all is taboo.

Our whole relationship has a subtext so subtle even I can’t really articulate it. Anything can set it off. There are invisible buttons that can be pressed and that’s it. My father will shoot across a look of pure rage and the temperature will plummet. And I’m so tuned into it that I’m on the alert for it. They are both quite capable of still doing it now even though they’re older. But when it started happening around my own children, who they actually do love very much, that’s when it really struck me how unacceptable it is.

But they’re now quite frail and need me more, so I think it’s harder for them to attempt to be so controlling.

I wish I had a solution. I’ve spent a lot of my life trying to understand and come up with one to no avail, it’s exhausting. I’m afraid it has seriously coloured my true feelings towards them now they’re old. People who just pull the plug both physically and emotionally to gain control of their children or a disagreement are causing huge damage.

I was so interested to read your op Melody. It’s not often I’ve read about anyone’s parents sounding so similar to mine. I can only sympathise A lot.

I suppose there’s always the no contact route, but for me that would have been impossible really. I suppose I’ve come more of a no contact or less contact at least, emotionally. I feel I have a bit of control back that way. Very draining though.

Very briefly, you need to get counselling and cut them out of your life, before they start doing the same to your DC and/or teach them to treat you the same way.

They are quite simply ruining your life and your days enjoying your DC's childhood.

Set yourself free.

"Very briefly, you need to get counselling and cut them out of your life, before they start doing the same to your DC and/or teach them to treat you the same way.

They are quite simply ruining your life and your days enjoying your DC's childhood.

Set yourself free"

Beautifully put. You don't have to have contact with them at all. You've taken the first step by refusing to initiate contact after a period of radio silence. Well done! Continue to keep control of the situation and enjoy the peace and quiet of not having them in your life.

Brilliant advice from everybody so far - I would agree about reading up/looking online about narc mothers and how to protect yourself and build some boundaries. The 'silent treatment' is classic narc behaviour (as you probably know by now).

I put up with that crap from my mother for years. Then one day, like you, I decided not to 'coax' her out of her sulk but to break the cycle. She couldn't accept me changing the toxic rules of our relationship, so we are now NC and my life is my own - bliss.

DH used to think she was a bit batty but harmless - I had never told him the whole story. But once I had, he was 100% on board. My guess is that your DC are asking to see her/them because that's what they're used to doing - I would bet that if your DH suggests taking them somewhere else at the weekend, they would soon forget about seeing their GPs. And btw - you wouldn't be 'depriving' them - you would be protecting them from abusive, toxic people.

Can I also recommend the Stately Homes thread in Relationships, where you will find lots of sympathy and advice

Thank you for your replies I can't tell you what a relief it is to open up about my parents, my dh knows everything and he detests my dm, he thinks my dad is selfish and just wants an easy life, I do love df and wish I could just see him and not my dm, but it just wouldn't be possible he is too enmeshed to go against her. He had bowel cancer last year though luckily it was caught at an early stage and the Drs think they removed everything, but because it's not certain and there is a chance it could come back at some point, I am finding it hard to imagine breaking contact with them and not being there for df. Saying that, the thought of going through that situation alongside dm is horrendous, she's half saying she might as well kill herself when talking about his cancer because she can't survive without him, and half raging with jealousy over all the attention it's got him from family!

I'll have a look at the stately homes thread and thank you for all the reading recommendations, I'll start on some this evening. I'm also going to see my gp about getting some counselling or cbt to help deal with things, my anxiety levels have been through the roof and not sleeping well, I've had a few panic attacks again recently.

So shall I just leave things as they are and not make contact? I'm tempted to text db and see what they might have said to him, it wouldn't really achieve anything though and he hates to get involved or admit that anything is wrong, his experience is very different to mine with him being the golden child.

I keep thinking what if my dm is right and they really are lying there dead, I feel like a mad woman having these thoughts. The other thing I keep worrying about is if I bump into them at the local supermarket or something, they live 15 mins drive away from us, so I'm driving further to go to places they don't use! I feel hurt that df is going along with dm, I am used to being emotionally battered by her but there is nothing to stop df from phoning me or popping round in secret. He has phoned me before when this has happened, dm doesn't get up til late morning so he has phoned me when I'm back from the school run, not this time and I think he is maybe hurt that I've not phoned to see how he is. Although really I keep coming back to the same thing, neither of them can deal with the fact I have a genetic chronic condition, it doesn't fit with their we're a perfect middle class family image, there's no empathy or even interest, they refer to it as that thing you've got. I have multiple health problems but it is not allowed because only they can have things wrong with them, they're getting old and finding it hard and depressing. Ironically they are both fitter than me but like to pretend I don't have a permanent disability because of my condition. When dh told them I was bed bound again 2 weeks ago and my operation was being brought forward because of the pain I'm in, they just said oh dear, then the radio silence followed. I can't imagine ever being like that with my dc, I would do everything I could to be supportive, and it wasn't til I became a parent myself that I realised how I didn't just have a difficult relationship with my own mother, she was actually completely toxic, and perhaps a bit crazy or evil!

My situation is so similar to yours op - once you start talking to people who are in the same boat it's freaky how much these awful people seem to follow the same script. When I was growing up I too thought my family were 'normal' - until I had DC of my own and started remembering things my mother said or did. And I also started to realise how unhappy I was as a child, and that wasn't 'normal' either.

The dad side of it is so difficult. I don't know what the answer is for you. I know my dad loved me - the only glimpses I ever had of real love and affection came from him, but at the same time he pandered to my mother and allowed her to treat us all so badly (him included). My dad died suddenly when I was a teenager, so now I remember him as somebody who did love me, but just did the best he could manage to do, as somebody who was pretty messed up himself

Anyway, sorry for the essay! In answer to your questions - it's great that you're getting help. I have suffered from anxiety my whole life (diagnosed as GAD), and counselling has helped me understand the root of it, and that it's not something wrong with 'me' but what was inflicted on me. I now spend most days not feeling anxious at all which is a revelation for me.

And no, I wouldn't contact your mother. Doing so means falling back into the toxic role she wants to keep you in. Do you really want to start th whole shitty cycle again? But of course, not contacting her may well spur her into more drastic action which only you can decide if you're ready to stand up to.

I also have a golden child sibling. When the crap hit the fan for me, she wasnt interested. But now I'm out of the picture, she has been ringing me in tears and saying she is getting the nasty treatment from our mother that I used to get ( as often happens in these situations). I do feel sorry for her, but from a distance! I'm never going to allow myself to get dragged back into it after a year of peace!

You only need to do a quick google search and there are hundreds of children of Narc parents. You are t on your own. Do look st those videos I meantioned as you will immediately start to feel sane. That make you feel like you are the crazy one. Your not! Xx

I would just go NC and step away, eventually you feel 100% happier!!

Your dad is sacrificing you to save himself btw...

Hi op, you have my sympathy. I have the same problem with my parents, had a similar situation in September so I decided not to contact them and see what happened and they never contacted me either.
I haven't seen my father since my wedding day in September(where he made me cry outside the church)
He saw my husband at Christmas at tried to tell him that I cause all the problems in his "family" DH refused to listen and told him that exactly.
I've seen my mother a couple of times but only because she wanted her hair done.
My older sister has also joined them so I haven't seen her or her kids since the wedding.
They boycotted my sons birthday party to punish me.
They'll never be asked to anything again.
I could go on and on and on....

I've had some counselling which really helped, and my life is so much easier without them in it.

You also have to stop your DH from using your parents when it suits for
babysitting. He knows how they are and what they do to you and it's not fair.

If they are too toxic for you to handle - why on earth are you letting them near your children ?

I'm in the dark about what I've done this time but it could be that I didn't phone dm and formally thank her for taking one of my dc out for a few hours one afternoon in the holidays. Even though I said thank you at the time and gushed in person....

They both know I've... chronic condition, it's another part of me that they make sure I know isn't up to their standards, they still can't accept my condition after 20 years with it...

When dh told them I was bed bound again 2 weeks ago and my operation was being brought forward because of the pain I'm in, they just said oh dear, then the radio silence followed

Oh how very familiar. My adoptive father is urbane, civilized and intelligent .... but you manage to encapsulate very well what it's like dealing with him. It makes you feel absolutely shit, doesn't it. Ime it's as bad as the violent stuff being on the receiving end of the 'we've a vested interest in making sure you know you're a disappointment' thing for years. Bio. mother was screaming knife-wielding strangling crazy so I've experience of both, joy. BTW "Others have it worse" isn't relevent actually because very painful parenting isn't a competition.

That book Toxic Parents is great, but I think you need some -skilled- counselling and therapy too. A lot of what you say, and the way you say it, indicates that their grip on your thought patterns is still very strong.

It -is- possible to break free mentally and to gain self-respect and more power, though it's a hard path. A good therapist should help a great deal.

most of all though, melody, your husband needs to not pressure you 'make up' with them. He needs to find other babysitters. Right now, you're handing them a shit load of power by relying on them and he needs to help you step away from this destructive behaviour by them