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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can I improve this relationship?

18 replies

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 14:47

Shortish version:

DH SAHD, me WOHM, two DC 8 & 10. DH does all cooking, cleaning, school stuff and some major DIY (shifting walls, built in storage, electrics etc). I do full time work, plus all organising from finances to playdates.

On plus side we get on, have similar views on child rearing, money, politics, use of leisure time etc. So don't disagree much. And we have fun together and as a family but... basically he is a depressed alcoholic.

So he won't countenance doing anything outside house - ideally I'd like him to earn but even voluntary work would give him a focus outside house which i think he needs. And he stays up drinking every night which has killed our sex life and makes him v. grumpy every morning.

It doesn't seem like an issue we can solve through counselling but nor does it seem worth breaking up a successful family unit because he won't get his shit together. Any ideas?

OP posts:
NotTheFordType · 15/04/2018 14:52

Does he drive the kids to school in the morning? I'd be very worried about that if he is drinking "all night" - it's unlikely the alcohol has fully left his system and his judgement will be impaired.

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 14:56

We are in walking distance of school. And he drinks every night not all night. Although often til 1 or 2 am.

OP posts:
Worryworker · 15/04/2018 15:37

Does he engage with family life outside the home eg: days out, holidays? Have you told him you want things to be different, for him to perhaps cut down or stop the drinking?

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 16:02

Yes and yes.

We have good holidays and lovely days out. There's an annoying factor of having to plan round his hangovers etc. But once we get going he's grand..

If i talk to him about drinking, he'll say he knows and is going to cut down - but won't seek help. On working, volunteering, hobbies he gets very threatened if i mention it and puts up constant barriers - like the never ending diy he has to do.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 15/04/2018 16:33

How is your family unit at all successful; it is no really successful is it?. Your lives revolves around him and his alcoholism and like many posts of this type its mainly about the alcoholic. Where do you fit into all this, what do you get out of this relationship in terms of your own needs being met?. You get something out of this so what it is exactly?

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. Would you want this for them as adults, for them to be with an alcoholic too or for them to even become alcoholics themselves?. You're showing them that currently at least, this is acceptable to you as their mother.

There is no improving such a relationship which is also mired in dysfunction and codependency (relationships in which alcohol all too heavily features are more often than not codependent in nature). Talking to him about his alcohol intake is a waste of time and he is denial. You can only help your own self ultimately and contacting Al-anon would be a good start.

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 16:51

Hi Attila I think you are probably right which is why I am asking if there is any other route.

Because basically it appears binary: continue to put up with it for a family which functions financially, eat, study work effectively, we have good days out and holidays - but as you say are making unpalatable accommodations which enable him to continue drinking.

Or go through the upheaval of divorce. Sell house, me and kids go live somewhere else, DH gets bedsit and maintenance from my salary which will enable him to spiral into full alcoholism or may spur him to finally stop.. who knows.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 15/04/2018 17:02

There is really no other route. Staying with this man will emotionally harm your children and you cannot as their mother fully protect them from the realities of his alcoholism.

What is in this relationship for you, what are you getting out of this?. He is not employed, there is no sex, he does not seem there for his children, you plan around his hangovers. Is he really that much worth it?. His primary relationship is with alcohol; its certainly not with you or the kids. Having a house is no reason at all to stay within such a relationship; its certainly not your sanctuary either is it?.

Have you as yet sought legal advice, if not I would seriously consider doing that. Why would your DH at all get maintenance from your salary?. What he does with his life post separation is really not your concern (that is also where any codependency you have comes in because you feel very responsible for the alcoholic). You are not responsible for him. He may well descend further into alcoholism from that time but its his choice.

Tutuye · 15/04/2018 17:13

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you need to recognise that this family 'functions' for now. If his drinking worsens, which I think will be the case with alcoholism, they just need more and more, it will soon cease to function. So, I think you have to do the ultimatum thing - 'address the depression/alcoholism or I have to address the breakdown of the family now so I'm prepared for it'....

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 17:21

Not sought legal advice - my understanding is he would get spousal maintenance because he is not employed and therefore unable to support himself.

I do get companionship out of relationship and someone to share decision making with. And he is there for kids from 10am to 9 pm most days (post hangover/pre drinking) he's attending stuff at school, making stuff with them, cooking, getting them to bed.

But i do fear what it does to kids i read a description of alcohlic parent on here once "grumpy, self-absorbed and emotionally distant" and he can be that too!

OP posts:
Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 17:34

Thanks Tutuye, cross posted... I'm steeling myself really because there is no point saying it if I don't mean it.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 15/04/2018 17:35

Sparkletop,

re your comments in quote marks:-
"Not sought legal advice - my understanding is he would get spousal maintenance because he is not employed and therefore unable to support himself".

I would seek legal advice as a matter of course, your own supposition may well be wrong here. He can get a job, he simply is choosing not to do so and letting you instead carry all the mental load.

"I do get companionship out of relationship and someone to share decision making with. And he is there for kids from 10am to 9 pm most days (post hangover/pre drinking) he's attending stuff at school, making stuff with them, cooking, getting them to bed".

If this is what you think companionship is then your boundaries in relationships need resetting. I would also think he lets you make most if not all the decisions. He is really doing the barest of bare minimums here re parenting and no more than that (his primary relationship is with alcohol after all). I would think you do an awful lot more with and for your kids.

"But i do fear what it does to kids i read a description of alcohlic parent on here once "grumpy, self-absorbed and emotionally distant" and he can be that too!"

Indeed and you should indeed fear what an alcoholic parent can and does do to children. The characteristics of adult children of alcoholics do indeed make for very sobering reading.

You have a choice re this man, they do not. They have to follow your lead here.

NotTheFordType · 15/04/2018 18:06

OP.

A good friend of mine has a DH who lived with an alcoholic mother his whole childhood. He never saw her drunk. He never found any empty bottles, etc. He had no idea she was an alcoholic until she was hospitalised with liver failure. AND YET he still ticks the majority of the "laundry list" for children of alcoholics.
www.adultchildren.org/lit-laundry_list

It's not about "seeing him drunk" or whatever. It's about living with an addict, which is a very dysfunctional and toxic situation.

Please get your kids out.

101trees · 15/04/2018 18:09

Hello Sparkle

I'm hoping to get this across in a not too depressing over dramatic way.

I'm also hoping to give you the benefit of hindsight and an idea of how one of your scenarios might play out.

My father was an absolutely lovely man. People really adored and respected him. As a child, I totally idolized him. He was brilliant at practical and creative pursuits - he was a stay at home dad for part of our childhood, was a lovely patient caring father who taught me an enormous amount of the information and life skills which I know now. He was also an alcoholic. My mum worked full time as a teacher throughout our whole childhood.

My Dad's drinking varied a bit throughout our childhood depending on how depressed he was. In summer he was always more positive. Sometimes when his family would visit he would stop for several months at a time. But for years and years he denied there was a problem and refused to get help.

From my memories of it, I remember gradually realising that his behaviour wasn't normal and that my mum didn't like it. For some reason that translated to both my younger brother and I as being that our family just wasn't normal. We only realised we both felt that way when we discussed it as adults later down the line.

My family stuck together. People basically managed to function. We were always taken to school in clean uniform, homework got done, my mum went to work, my dad went to work for a while, although he preferred home based jobs on the whole. We went on holiday, day trips, saw family members, did nice activities with my dad etc. The family continued to function until we were all adults.

However, my dad's drinking did of course cause some issues. I remember finding wine bottles, dozens and dozens of them all stashed away. I was devastated by it as I realised he had a problem. My parents lost friends as he couldn't visit other people without secretly drinking and their friends didn't want that sort of behaviour around their kids. When we were teenagers my dad got caught drink driving and couldn't take us to school or himself to work anymore. Before that he used to turn up drunk to collect my brother and then me from our respective schools. I used to make my brother get out of the car and my school would call my mum and get her to collect us instead. When I was a teenager I had enough and told my school how things were at home. They gave me free boarding at school to get me out of the environment. My brother was left alone to deal with it at home.

He was never abusive, violent or horrible when drinking. Ever. But it upset us because we knew it was wrong and not what all the other parents did. Society does not accept alcoholics. Schools don't, employers don't, friends don't, your children won't.

My parents eventually divorced when I was 21. My brother was 18. He had burst into tears and begged my mum to leave my dad. To this day she tells everyone that she left for my brother- she let an 18 year old take that responsibility for ending her marriage because she couldn't make the hard choice.

My dad moved out, my brother never saw him again and never forgave him. Dad was always drunk after that. My parents remained friends. My mum used to look after him a bit. I used to visit him and spend time with him in his better phases. But gradually the better stages didn't happen anymore. We would get phone calls from police and hospitals saying he had passed out in the road. Eventually he died prematurely from an alcohol related accident. We were all devastated, particularly my brother.

My little brother now spends his time sat in my Mum's house drinking and depressed.

Children of alcoholics suffer from low self esteem and frequently become alcoholics or adicts themselves. They are attracted to partners who they try to rescue from addictions of their own.

I'm sorry, that was terribly long and depressing.

Long story short: the consequences of staying together are the impacts that it will have on your whole family in the long term.

I hope the story helps you somewhat. My suggestion would be to first start with informing yourself by phoning the families of al-anon. Do some research to figure out what will happen in the long term. Your husband's drinking will not remain between the hours of 10pm - 9am forever. Good luck with everything. Xx

101trees · 15/04/2018 18:23

PS (sorry, me again)
The title of your post is "can I improve this relationship

The answer is that you cannot improve anything. Your husband is an alcoholic and needs to choose to get help and solve that for himself.

The only way you can change it is to stop enabling his behaviour. To leave him and tell him why. Tell him that he has a family waiting for him but he can't have them until he has stopped drinking totally forever. He has to choose you and your kids over alcohol. You can't do it for him.

I badly wish we had done that with my dad. We might have saved him.

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 19:02

Thanks 101 and nottheford,, it is helpful to hear about people that have been in that situation. The people who know about my situation in RL - including a friend who is recovering AA attending alcoholic don't think the situation is that clear cut, I fear it is. I may contact al-anon it sounds like it might help.

OP posts:
SusieQwhereareyou · 15/04/2018 19:35

Hi OP. I was married to an alcoholic, and much of your post is very familiar to me. We are now separated and like you for many years I wrestled with the same dilemma about splitting up the family unit, which functioned relatively normally and the consequences of ending it. I knew that if we split up the chances were that his drinking would escalate, and that I would be responsible for making him worse by selfishly withdrawing my help and support. This is exactly what happened, because alcoholics love a reason to drink and I gave him a great one. Of course he was drinking, he was unhappy because his wife had left him. However you have to get to the point where you realise that you are not responsible for that. It is not your job to maintain his acceptable level of alcoholism. I also had to realise that although I was spending hours thinking about him, the drinking, the issues splitting up would cause, my fears about his drinking escalating, how I could manage the current status quo - he wasn’t thinking about it at all. No one was thinking about me or how I was being affected. He would pay lip service to the idea when it suited him but he wasn’t spending hours worrying about the impact his drinking was having on my mental health or on our children. You are agonising about improving your relationship but your husband isn’t and he is the only one that actually can.

Sparkletop · 15/04/2018 20:32

Ha SusieQ, thats a very good point - of all the mental load I carry that's one of the biggest. And I am going to explicitly give it back to him, whilst also doing the above.

I don't think I'm worried about him particularly, more what effect him imploding and kids having effectively no Dad would do to them. (I get the damage having an emotionally unavailable parent now does!).

OP posts:
lifebegins50 · 15/04/2018 23:48

Great advice here.Is his health ok and would he see a GP to assess the damage alcohol is causing?

Reality is alcoholics won't quit as alcohol and their life is so intertwined.

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