Is Mother in law a narcissist? Please advise

[Purplebutterfly320]

I think my mother in law is a narcissist...please help!

I’ve always had difficulties with my MIL But I’m belatedly thinking that she’s an actual narcissist.
Please can you advise?
Sorry for long post! I’ve got many more examples but trying not to make post excessively long!

1. She has no empathy for anyone else
My husband recently had a breakdown. I believe one of the reasons for this was his family.
He was psychotic and suicidal. But my mother in law couldn’t possibly come to help him because it ‘would be too upsetting for her’.
But when DH was in hospital she had a go at my child whenever they cried because ‘he has nothing to be upset about’. Well-what she couldn’t face for even a day they had been living with for 6 weeks! And the fact their father had suddenly disappeared from home.

I had to meet a doctor with my husband and my pre schooler was with brother and father in law in separate room in hospital. The next day mother and brother in law were joking and laughing that apparently my pre schooler was sobbing hysterically desperately opening doors desperate to find me. This was the first I’d been ‘told’ about it. I was horrified that this happened to my small child at all, never mind that mother and brother in law hadn’t even told me but were laughing about my child’s distress!

2. She is never in the wrong, ever
As an example I gave mother in law an activity to do with my child to try to encourage her to interact with them. It involved HER cutting so I gave HER a pair of adult scissors. Five minutes later I found her given up on the activity and sitting away at the table whilst my pre schooler was playing with the adult scissors! When I spoke to her about it, she said ‘well it’s your fault because you gave me the scissors!’

3.She can burst into tears at the drop of a hat
My husband is always on his mother’s side. Once I made a fairly mild point to her and she went running into the kitchen histrionically sobbing.
DH rushed after her to comfort her!

DH has finally agreed to come to counselling with me so I hope this will be helpful.

Does this sound like narcissist behaviour to you?
Do you have any advice please?

Oh dear. I don't have the psychology knowledge to actually answer the question, I just wanted to send you some hugs and say 'MILs are tricky!'

I don't get mother/son relationships and I think it's always difficult for the wife. It's not fair of her to go running to your husband though (crying). That is emotional blackmail. My MIL is good at that!

She sounds awful OP
You need your DP to back you up and not side with her
Word of advice I'd be wary about using the word "narcissist" anywhere else but here. MN gets it but the real world doesn't. It may get your DPs back up if he thinks you are slapping a derogatory label on his mum. at the end of the day it doesn't matter what label you put on it, her behaviour is totally unacceptable.

What sort of counselling?. Is it with someone who is highly versed in the machinations of narcissistic family structures?. Your H certainly needs to address his FOG (Fear, obligation and guilt) with regards to his family of origin and there is no quick fix here at all. He may well never want to address his FOG either.

His mother is certainly disordered of thinking and its not your fault that she is the ways she is. Emotionally healthy people simply do not behave in the ways your MIL has done and the lack of empathy is a big red flag here pertaining to narcissism. You did not make her that way and neither did your H (her own family of origin did that).

You need to protect yourself and your child from all of his family of origin; her H and your BIL cannot be relied upon either and they are simply doing MILs bidding.Ultimately you need to have no contact at all between you and they. They will emotionally harm your son in not too dissimilar ways as to how your H (who seems to be his family of origin's scapegoat here in all this, people from dysfunctional families end up playing roles) has been harmed.

Your H may well want to continue to have a relationship with all of his family of origin but it does not follow that your or your son have to. If his mother is indeed a narcissist it is not possible to have a relationship with such a person.

What other MH help is your DH getting at present? I would say it is quite possible that his upbringing contributed to his recent breakdown.

And you would be perfectly within your rights to never use them for any form of child care in future - a mum from the school gates or an older teen would do a better job.

I can't answer that question but your MIL certainly doesn't sound emotionally healthy (to put it mildly) or healthy for you, your husband or your children to be around.

I've got a MIL who shows all three of the traits you have mentioned, although interestingly she can stop the tears when she realises they aren't having the desired effect. I have many anecdotes about points 1 & 2.

DH describes her as manipulative and self absorbed but that doesn't mean that he hasn't been badly affected by her despite the awareness. I'm only really grasping the full effects now (many, many years later) as we shake off the last of the FOG. I would've said that DH was very matter of fact about it all and coped better than me - I was wrong about that.

I'm ashamed to say that I came into their lives and made things worse (I didn't really believe him to be honest - having come from a more overtly dysfunctional family (partly born from early bereavements).. his seemed picture perfect) and even acted as a flying monkey at times. It all seems so obvious now. I am so angry with myself for required many extra years of 'evidence' before I started putting up firmer boundaries.

We've still got a way to go and I'm still seeking advice and answers myself so don't feel well placed to give advice. This is what I have though:

1. Trust your instincts - things clearly aren't right with or without the 'narcissist' diagnosis.
2. Seek help for yourself - by reading, by your own counselling.
3. Protect your children - I wouldn't allow unsupervised visits with her at all given what you've said.
4. Avoid contact yourself and if you can't avoid it be bland and keep it brief.
5. Given your husband's MH I wouldn't push things with him. I would avoid bringing them up at all unless he does. Work on your own boundaries and be firm with them (I found a counsellor invaluable here - it's hard). I try very hard not to mention the ILs at all (it isn't just MIL - she is definitely enabled and what traits she doesn't have FIL does...argh!!!!).

What help is your DH already receiving?

For your husband buy Toxic parents, overcoming their hurtful legacy and reclaiming your life by Susan Forward.

For yourself OP, buy Toxic In-Laws, Loving Strategies to protect your marriage, also by Susan Forward.

The short answer is yes!! Your DH's family of origin is toxic and your DH, bil and fil have spent their lives placating narcissistic mil!

As a wife in a very similar situation, who went no contact with in-laws 5-7 years ago and stopped in-laws contact with dc at the insistence of several professionals, (in place to support me as I am severely disabled, sw, advocate and psychiatrist were witnesses to inlaws disturbing behaviour and made it clear that MIL's behaviour was a safeguarding issue) I can honestly tell you that, that decision was the making of my/ our marriage! I am so grateful that my DH listened to the professionals and fully supported DC and I going NC. Shortly after DH went fully NC himself. In-laws can contact DH via email/ messenger in event of an absolute emergency. Although apart from a couple of messages we have been fully NC for a long time now, DH's mental health has thoroughly improved, his self-esteem has grown ten-fold and he is a happier, kinder parent as a result!

Is your Ds her grandson. All the way through your post you refer to MY preschooler. Are your Dh and mil related to him. If so why not say so and consider who may be the narcissist.

Thank you so much for your replies - very helpful.

rose69 thank you for your input. Re reading my post I can see your point. But Pre schooler is very much OUR child. My primary focus over the past 4 months has been a) Looking after my husband and getting him the best psychiatric help and b) Protecting our pre schooler from the situation as much as possible (and with husband being in hospital). I think I used MY because of that experience (of husband not being there and able to protect pre schooler) and the way I write...I didn’t mean anything by it. It’s my first time posting and maybe I haven’t framed it correctly. It’s a complicated situation with a lot of history-maybe Mumsnet isn’t the right forum. I’ve been trying to consider if I am a narcissist and don’t think I am from what I’m learning them to be. I certainly try not to be and show empathy and apologise if I’ve been in the wrong.

I very much doubt you are a narcissist Purple, you have empathy and insight for a start. Narcissistic people have no empathy and no insight whatsoever.

I hope you take heed of the other responses given as they would be more helpful to you.

Hope you have other people around who you can rely on and don’t have to depend on his family too much. They sound awful. Hope your husband is getting better. You are doing a super job holding it all together.