Disagreeing about important values

[ScottishDiblet]

Hello,
Is anyone else in an otherwise “good” marriage where you don’t agree with each other on key issues or values? For examples we voted differently on Brexit and we both feel really strongly about it. I’ve really tried to see his point of view but sometimes I think we must fundamentally be too different. And yesterday I re-tweeted Hadley Freeman’s article about trans issues and this led us into a discussion where suddenly my DH said he didn’t think gay people should necessarily be allowed to be parents. I find this statement really shocking and completely disagree. I find it hard to debate topics like this because there are so many emotions involved. Are we just too different? On other things eg right to die we do agree.

Does it directly affect your marriage? If not then I would say it doesn't matter too much to worry about.

However, if you think less of him or whatever because of his opinions then yes I guess it does matter. My DH once said to me he would never have a DS baby and he also wanted me to terminate our third child who was a surprise. Abortion is something I am hugely against and also having a child with DS wouldn't bother me either, I think they have the same right to life as anyone else.

Whilst this shocked me we still moved forward, but it just depends where you draw the line I guess. Is it really about this or something more?

I take it his views were a shock to you?

My husband and I differ politically but we respect each other's views even if we don't agree.

My closest friend had a very different upbringing and we had very different experiences during The Troubles. We've had many a debate over a bottle or two, but never a cross word, even though our sympathies and condemnations lie in very different camps.

I'm in a rural area in NI where it would seem it is perfectly ok to be casually homophobic so I am accustomed to living and working harmoniously with people with opposing views but, although I'm quite 'live and let live', and can live with someone with some differing views, I could not be married to a bigot. I would not have any respect for my husband if he had, what I feel are, ignorant views on homosexuality.

My grandmas always said the perfect marriage shared the same politics, religion, class, race. She also said love overcame a 25% difference but 50% was trickier.

Mine occasionally comes up with some shockers. But he has a very different early life and work experience to me, so I try to accept that they don't make him a horrible person.

He is very good with sex equality in general, but doesn't think women would be much use in certain situations, mainly where bodyweight and strength are an issue. I may have qualms, but I will never be the person on the other end of the rope, so I accept his assessment of that situation.

Thank you for your replies. We talked more about the gay people having children comment last night and I think where he is coming from is that he is adopted and takes it very personally that more people don’t opt for adoption before surrogacy. I understand where he is coming from and I actually do not think he means gay people should not be parents. Sometimes we argue taking opposing sides and I wonder if he likes a debate more than actually disagreeing with me. It’s a lesson for me to not rise to it and to discuss it rationally. I am very liberal and he’s more conservative and I do worry he’s becoming more so but I hope it won’t be a deal breaker.

I'd been married about six months when I discovered that my bloke was a royalist and I am not. Worried that we didn't have the same values and how I'd married someone like that!. Then I realised that it had not come up before because it really didn't matter. We cared for each other, liked curry, cats and the garden...it was ok :)

I find it very difficult to accept when my partner's views on political issues differ from mine. I suppose some people are more flexible than I am...

I actually think it is good and healthy and a safe way to hear the other side of arguments. Many people live in echo chambers where they only hang round with people who agree with them. I see facebook debates where everyone says the same thing but my favourite threads on FB are always the ones where a group of trusted friends who have known each other since we were at schooland even then had vastly different politiccs, thrash out current political issues in an intelligent way and we can all learn from it. It is very arrogant to ever assume that what we think is the only truth and others are wrong.

Dh leans left politically whereas I am slightly right of centre. We been together 7 years and married 4 and it has only just really become an issue because I want to consider private school for our kids... Right now, it seems like quite a big issue but I have faith that we'll figure it out!

Yep. And it's partly why I divorced. Whilst I can accept friends and family who support different political parties or have different opinions on specific things, this summed it up for me recently:
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208830993187561&set=a.10208806673899594.1073741833.1095734566&type=3.

On this particular issue, I can see your dh's pov. I don't think gay people shouldn't be parents. I am opposed to a child not knowing who their biological parents are though - so I disagree with anonymous egg/sperm donation whatever the gender/sexuality of the people who bring up the children. Like your dh, its for very personal reasons - I grew up without my biological mother and was severly affected by that lack of knowledge about my genetic background.

I think attitudes to money, sex, work ethic, raising children, life goals, loyalty and morals are more important values than politics in a relationships.

I only have a problem with people who are unable to debate or accept others view points, they don’t have to agree with them.

I think some differing views on things is good and health but if my partner had different ore values than me I don't think it would last.

As in if my partner had racist homophobic xenophobic ect views I couldn't be with him. But if we differ on our opinions about brexit and have a debate as to why, respect each others points and move on then I'd say that's normal and healthy. It takes all sorts to make a world, some differences are okay as long as core values are similar to your own imo

The differences between my worldview and that of my exH played a part in our divorce.

It wasn't so much the fact that we disagreed on particular issues (though we did, a lot) but him feeling that he had a legitimate right to demand that people who didn't share his views pay lip service to the values he believes in. This, to me, was a deal breaker.

I think it depends on how strongly you feel on the issue. I think the royal family are a waste of skin, my dp thinks they're fine, has lead to a bit of light hearted debate but nothing serious. We voted the same in brexit but if we hadn't I don't think I'd be upset. The debate would have been more heated, but I wouldn't have wanted to fall out over it. He felt very strongly about it however and would have definitely been very upset if we didn't hold that value. Similarly I feel very strongly about things like marriage equality and if dp held homophobic beliefs (he doesn't!) I'd be disgusted. If we didn't have a child it's something I'd end the relationship over in a second. The same with religion, we are both hard atheists and I'm probably more of an antitheist. If he had a religion we wouldn't have got passed the first date, I just could never be involved with someone who held that belief. My friend on the other hand was happy to convert to her husbands religion to get married. I guess everyone draws their own line.

Very rarely in life is anything 100% right or wrong. Mostly we come to our beliefs on balance.

As long as you both realise that there are pros and cons on most things and the difference can be the weighting we give those things then you’re ok.

I couldn’t be with anyone who couldn’t understand there are 2 sides to everything or was against things I feel strongest about.

DP was a staunch vegetarian (you know those annoying types where they keep commenting on killing animals) when we started dating. That was very difficult, but didn't last since he is inherently quite lazy and couldn't shame me into becoming a vegetarian so decided to give it up.

the perfect marriage shared the same politics, religion, class race

We score 1/4, and that one is entirely due to biology.

DP is a posh, Tory voting CofE member.

I’m a working class liberal atheist.

It works fine. We can discuss things sensibly, respect one another’s POV and agree to differ where necessary. We agree about some stuff too, which is a bit dull.

People who can’t be the friend or partner of someone with very different views tend to lack intellectual self-confidence. In my experience, this often applies to very left-wing people.

Thank you ladies so much! I really appreciate your views. I think we need to work on our discussion style to make it more respectful and not so emotional (me) or dismissive (him). We do believe so many of the same things and hold the same values and I get where he comes from with his adoption. I’m talking things through calmly helps to explain things. Unfortunately we will never see eye to eye on Brexit but fingers crossed it will all be ok for the country.

I think we need to work on our discussion style to make it more respectful and not so emotional (me) or dismissive (him).

I think this is a bigger barrier than having different views. Unfortunately I have this problem. DH doesn't change his mind. He knows better. There is no point in ever discussing anything with him and it's depressing.

I think where he is coming from is that he is adopted and takes it very personally that more people don’t opt for adoption before surrogacy. I understand where he is coming from and I actually do not think he means gay people should not be parent

There are many children in care awaiting adoption. However the reason they are waiting is not surrogacy. If surrogacy was made illegal tomorrow it wouldn’t substantially increase the number of children adopted.

The reason that they are waiting is that there is a mismatch between the kinds of children people want to adopt and the kinds of children who are waiting. Many are school aged, in sibling groups and have additional needs of different kinds.

And the other reason is that most people decide to have a family by giving birth to a child rather than adopting.

I take it from your husbands comments that he is keen for you two to adopt . Are you on board with this?

Hi @M0rven well you’re spot on win your points about adoption of course and I did point all of that out to my husband yesterday and he accepted the reality of adoption now is very different to when he was adopted over 40 years ago. My job involves seeing a lot of families in care proceedings so I’m not naive to the processss and the children who get put up for adoption after many SS interventions.

Taking his argument seriously and accepting he isn't homophobic, he must be keen to adopt not procreate. Is that the case? If not he's masking his homopbia with his adoption argument. I couldn't be with someone who is self centred and intolerant

Wow! You could be me, your situation sounds so similar to mine. I'm really struggling to reconcile our very different views without taking things personally. For example he's a bit of a benefit basher and has come out with some truly awful statements. It's left me in tears because I was a benefit child and it's so hard not to take it personally.

He has also said some quite homophobic things - he believes that children raised by a gay couple are more likely to turn out gay and that it's not fair on them. Utterly ridiculous, even if it was true, who cares? Two loving parents is a bonus surely? Some of us only get one.

Feminism is another one, he barely acknowledges the genuine issues I've faced. He stated that the #metoo campaign was all attention seeking rubbish. I tried opening up about my own experiences and how I thought these women were incredibly brave, braver than me. His response - "Rape is already illegal, what more do you want?"

It's so hard because most "political" issues are things that have genuinely impacted me wheras he has been fairly sheltered so I don't know how to talk about it without getting emotional.

The problem is that he also likes to "play the devils advocate" so will disagree with me by default for a balanced argument, I find it incredibly hurtful that every stance I have is coldly dismissed.

It is slowly getting better, instead of getting upset I have tried writing my feelings down and calmly explaining why an issue is personal to me etc.

Progress is happening but sometimes I get an overwhelming fear that I'm stuck with someone that has a cruel view of the world. But then he makes progress or does something kind to remind me why I fell in love with him in the first place.

If anyone has all the answers I'd love to hear them.

@ScottishDiblet - if you work in SW you will probably know that some of these issues you and your husband have will come up during the adoption process.

How far along the home study are you ? there are very friendly adoption boards here on MN. Evenif you don’t want to post, there’s a wealth of information and advice on there so it’s worth reading.

Me and husband are on opposite Brexit sides. He’s a bleeding heart socialist, I’m a heartless libertarian :)

We do debate issues and while we still don’t agree on a lot of things, we don’t fall out - I respect that his politics come from his massive and admirable compassion, he gets that personal freedom is the most important thing for me. He has also read up on some feminist stuff after we talked about it and is now more gender-critical than I am.

Not saying it works for everyone, but I think as long as you can find positive emotions about why your other half holds the views they do, even if you disagree with the views themselves, you’ll probably be ok.