DC going NC with dad to protect them?

[Mousestop]

I’ll try to be as brief as possible without risk of drip feeding.

I have three DC aged 8, 6 and 5 to exH whom I separated from three years ago. Within a month of separating he had met and moved in with someone else who has two DC (now aged 5 and 9). For the past two years there’s been a multitude of issues surrounding my DC visiting their DF. We don’t have a court order in place, exh just takes them when he isn’t working which is usually Saturday evening-Sunday evening.

Basically I don’t believe his home is safe and it’s mostly because of his DP’s nine year old son. All I’ve heard from my DC every week is that they don’t want to go to daddy’s anymore because they don’t like Fred (not his real name). It isn’t some kind of personal vendetta that is unjust. Fred regularly threatens to kill them, kill me, break into our home and steal our things... he also gets physical with my 8yo DS. Furthermore my exh and his partner don’t wake until 10am on Sunday leaving Fred ‘in charge’. I know it sounds petty but he refuses to give them the breakfast cereal they ask for, won’t share games consoles or toys and they sit there bored until exh awakes to sort the issues out. My DC are frightened of him and consistently complain every week they don’t want to go to exh’s house because of him.

Now I have spoken to my exh pretty much on a weekly basis about the issue and he insists he is trying his best to solve Fred’s behavioural issues but nothing changes. I don’t think it’s normal for a nine year old to make threats to murder people somehow and he frightens our DC. My DS’ behaviour has rapidly changed recently as well. He has always been gentle and caring but recently has developed a ginormous attitude problem which could be attributed to his age but I know this is the way Fred acts and am worried he is mirroring it. IMO exh is showing an enormous disregard for his DC’s safety and well-being and is being incredibly feeble attempting to tackle the issues.

There have been other problems at play in the past. For example exH’s OH threatened to ‘tie my DC up and put tape over their mouths if they didn’t shut up’ . Upon hearing that I was obviously incandescent with rage and the DC did stop going for a while however his OH has been fine ever since this, it’s now just her son... Exh also never actually does anything with our DC, he’s taken them out approximately five times since we separated so for the most part they spend their time couped up in his small house. My DD’s also do not have beds... they sleep on a mattress on the floor. Their house is only two bedroomed and tiny, I don’t feel it’s safe for my DD’s especially to be sharing a room with pre-pubescent Fred. All of this (and more) has been regularly raised with exh but nothing seems to change and it’s now at a stage where my DS’ whole behaviour is changing and my middle DC is incredibly anxious about going every weekend.

I’m at a loss as to what to do. I don’t want my DC to lose their relationship with their DF but I don’t feel his home is a safe environment to be in and my DC don’t want to go anymore either. I have asked if it may be better that he take our DC out at the weekend on his own instead but he refuses because he ‘wants his DC to be a part of his new family’ .

Any advice?

Let him take you to court. He isn't acting in your dc best interests at all. In fact I would go so far as to say he is risking their safety. You are entitled to take measures to ensure that they feel safe. Keep record of all the abuse you are likely to get for your solicitor. And make some notes of recent events - your mind will go blank when faced with a solicitor I guarantee.

This is horrific.
It is clear where 'Fred" gets his behaviour from.
This is domestic abuse by a child and severe neglect by a parent.

Your children have endured this for 3 years. Although the OH seems "fine" after you called her on it - I have no doubt she is oozing and hissing contempt and rage......which is what "Fred" seems to be implementing on her behalf.

You have seen the negative impact on your DC behaviour - what about the 5 year old - experiencing this shit since the age of 2 ? - they will be traumatised.

I don't know the process - but as PP says - document evidence and then go to court.

Do not EVER expose them to this again.

Also they do not need a relationship with such a cuntish DF.

I just find it a huge shame because the DC do want to see their dad but they just don’t want to go to his house. They don’t feel safe there and rightly so. It’s not how I raise them whatsoever, we have a gentle and loving household so I do feel a little like I’m sending lambs to the slaughter every weekend and it breaks my heart a little. I just feel sad because they do still want a relationship with their DF, he just won’t have one outside of his ‘new family’.

I feel so sorry for them!

I'm not sure what you can do op.... keep a diary? Speak to him every single time?

I think you you need to start documenting this dates times etc. Have another talk with your ex and say you want him to see his children but you are no longer allowing them to go to his house whilst this is going on, suggest he can come to yours and see the children (and maybe get a friend or family member there whilst you go out?) but be firm and say they are not going to his house anymore until this situation with "Fred" is sorted. Tell him straight that when they come back they're telling you how upset and scared they are and if he won't back down let him take you to court and explain it in courts now they have CAFCAS (not sure how useful they are) who speak in court on children's behalf. If ex's OH gets abusive again don't engage and keep any threatening msgs you get for evidence. Sounds to me like this Fred child has serious issues and you don't want him to actually carry out his threats. He may live in that house but it is not down to him to make "rules" and abuse others.

Also if you don't make a stand and the school notice any marks on your children they will end up reporting it to social services and from the sounds of things it wouldn't surprise me if they have a file on Fred and his mum.

It could be as straight forward as Fred feeling as though his ‘territory’ is being encroached and acting out as a result but I personally don’t think it’s normal for a nine year old to be even thinking of threatening to kill somebody... and I could never ever live with myself if something actually happened.

I do mention the issues to exh every time he collects or drops them off but nothing ever seems to change. I’ve mentioned it tens if not hundreds of times now, I really don’t think I can do much else aside from stopping them going. I don’t even feel as though he provides a suitable home for them. Five children crammed into one tiny room and the girls don’t even have a bed? It’s just wrong.

I will suggest he takes them out alone again but last time he said he wouldn’t as he wanted them to be a part of his relationship with his OH and her DC...

Sorry Mouse - but YOU need to stand up for your children right now - no matter how uncomfortable it is for you.

"I do mention the issues to exh every time he collects or drops them off but nothing ever seems to change. I’ve mentioned it tens if not hundreds of times now, I really don’t think I can do much else aside from stopping them going."

Nothing changes because YOU are not following though on consequences or boundaries.

Do you need help here - was he abusive to you?

No, he was actually a brilliant Father when we were together which is why it’s surprised me so much he has changed so much, for the worse of course... Our marriage broke down for various reasons but no abuse was involved.

I did stop them going for about two months after I heard what his OH had said to them but exh promised it would never happen again and that all the problems were now resolved so I took that in good faith. Probably naive of me. I just don’t want my DC to lose their relationship with their father but I can’t see another way around it. It’s clearly not safe in his home and my DC are obviously my main priority so I need to ensure their safety.

@Mousestop

You're right its not normal for a nine year old to make threats of killing anyone and it sounds like he has serious issues which his mum and your ex haven't dealt with. If you've already told your ex about this and he has done nothing then I think you're gonna have to make the hard choice and tell him they are no longer going to his house until this is all sorted out. Your children's safety comes before their relationship with their father if he doesn't like it then tough its his own fault for not doing a thing to stop this.

He is not a brilliant father if he exposes them to this.

It will be up to him (the brilliant father) if he chooses to lose the relationship with them if he wont compromise and see them elsewhere.

You need to be the brilliant mother here and do the the right thing -- this has gone on for far too long already. YOU are the only one who can stop this as the "brilliant Dad" chooses not to.

You need to step up, do the right things and DEAL with it.

Don't send the poor kids back there...it's awful. If your Ex had their interests at heart, he would address the issue.

Make notes of everything your DC have said and before they are due to go over there...yell your Ex you just cannot sit back and do nothing.....because despite numerous conversations nothing changes and because the kids really want to see him...you've let it continue...but it's reached a head and their level of fear is escalating...so until he can guarantee Fred will not scare them and make these threats...they won't be coming over.

It's also helpful to put it in writing for evidence. It will confirm that:

• you have raised it numerous times
• that he has promised to address it
• that it continues
• that your DC are fearful

I would also put in writing some of the things Fred has threatened

That way there can be no denial thst he was unaware at a later stage...or that he didn't know the extent of it.

Perhaps this will force them to deal with Fred's behaviour.

5 kids in one room is too cramped and maybe this is Fred's way of scaring them off from coming. What a little bully he is.

Don’t send your child’s back there.

I will start documenting things the DC have told me. He was a brilliant father when we were together but I realise he absolutely isn’t now of course. I have messaged him to explain I don’t think it’s suitable or safe for them to stay at his house anymore on account of ‘Fred’s’ behaviour because I have mentioned it umpteen times and nothing changes. He has read and ignored the message. He doesn’t often reply to messages and will only call me when he is at work, I believe his OH is quite controlling.

Will see if he messages back or calls me but I can’t see any other possible solution. I will tell him he can take DC out without Fred by all means but I know he won’t do that.

I’m not sure what kind of grip his OH has on him but I feel as though she pulls his strings a lot and wouldn’t ‘allow’ him to take our DC out without her and her DC being a part of it. It’s pathetic of him to go along with it, I know.

This is all very sad. The bit about the grown ups not getting up until 10am is ridiculous. What happens if your children try to wake their father when they get up? Or what if they need him in the night?

They used to have a sign on the door saying “do not come in until 10” (DC told me) but apparently after I complained to exh they removed that, the DC now just know not to bother them else they will get in trouble. They get in trouble if they make too much noise and wake them up. Exh once tried complaining to me about how early our DS wakes up (usually 6-6:30) but this is his body clock and pretty much always has been, it’s nothing new. Exh suggested I try ‘sleep training him’ .

I don’t wake up at 6:30 with DS but he is old enough to grab something to eat and entertain himself for an hour or so until I do wake up. The biggest issue with exh having a lie-in is that Fred is left in control and he can be as nasty as he wants with zero adult supervision.

@Mousestop

Erm exactly how can you "sleep train" your son when he is not a baby? is your ex actually that stupid? LOL and if he's so aware of the situation and still lies in says to me he's selfish and hasn't bothered addressing the behaviour. And really a sign on the door! his current "DP" sounds like an abusive control freak not that's any excuse for ex's lack of parenting. As I said above really you're just gonna have to be tough and say your children aren't going to his no more and if he wants to see them he has to come to your house so its not like your stopping contact just limiting contact with ex's "DP" and Fred. That way even if he takes you to court you can say you did offer him to come to your house he refused any judge with half a brain will see you did what you thought was best for your children

Gosh 3.5 hours without adult supervision is a big chunk out of his contact time. Perhaps you could only allow day time visits and no overnights if the early morning period is the main problem.

I say stop them going.

Explain why.

Let him take you to court.

5 kids in a tiny bedroom cooped up all weekend sounds miserable, let alone little psycho Fred.

Being 'banned' from waking your parent up until 10am sounds miserable and lonely, as well as being looked after by psycho Fred.

They have told you they don't want to go. Listen to them.

@Mousestop How are things going? what did you decide to do?