Even when your marriage is on the rocks, you'd still expect some degree of compassion from OH when you're in actual, physical pain, wouldn't you?

[ilovemuffins]

Please tell me this is not okay. Actually I know it is not okay, but still need to hear it from others.

My marriage is at a low point at the moment. It's a long story - we have different priorities in life, OH is a perfectionist and I'm not living up to his expectations. Constant criticising, even in front of the kids, occasional verbal abuse, slightly narcissistic tendencies, you get the picture. I'm by no means perfect and can see why he gets frustrated with me - he is a high earner, I'm a freelancer and earn "pocket money" (his words, not mine); he carries a lot of the mental load in addition to working. I've become more and more frustrated with the state of our relationship and admittedly find it hard to motivate myself to contribute to the things that are important to him (mainly DIY and holiday planning). But I'm not nearly as bad as he makes it out- My "pocket money' job has earned me around £1000/month (plus very positive feedback from my clients), and I do most of the housework (though only to my standards, not his!) and care for our two children. I've been told I'm a good mum (by my kids and my friends, though rarely by him), but he constantly makes me feel shit and anxious.

I'm leftwing liberal softy (because I'm against smacking), I'm lazy and selfish, my housekeeping skills get unfavourably compared to his mother's, he has made negative remarks about my home country in front of the kids, told me that as a foreigner I shouldn't be allowed to participate in a local political campaign, have no common sense, etc., etc.

He refused to go for marriage counselling for years. Last year I threatened to leave if he didn't give it a go, so he reluctantly agreed. The counselling has improved things somewhat, but there is still constant criticism, no intimacy, no compassion. I've been diagnosed with a chronic health condition which impacts my energy levels and takes around 30 mins on a good day to manage to prevent it from deteriorating too quickly. The months leading up to the diagnosis were the worst of my life - I was scared I had a related, much worse, condition. He offered no emotional support whatsoever and continued to lay into me. Fortunately I have good friends who helped me through this period.

Now we can't be in the same room without sniping at each other. It makes me so sad. I feel we are only together for the kids' sake. Rationally I know of course that in the long run they will suffer more if we stay together, even though we mostly manage not to argue in their presence. But I am scared about the future if I leave - what if it is a terrible mistake? How will the children react? He is a very good dad, they would be devastated if we split. What happens if my illness gets worse and I can't look after them or work even part time (I've been hospitalised twice so far)? How will I cope with no family in this country? etc. On a good day I feel confident - realistically I should be able to keep the illness at bay for a long time as long as I look after myself. I'm good at my job, have a brilliant network of friends and a creative hobby which has given me a huge boost of confidence. But it's just such a roller coaster.

Apologies for the essay! I meant to just write about one single incident that occurred yesterday, but somehow got carried away.

Anyway, last night I got quite a bad stomach pain. Basically I was curled up in bed whimpering for a very long hour until the pain killer kicked in. It was only an upset stomach, but at the time I was scared it could be related to my illness. To be fair, OH told the kids to give me some space and did bedtime himself. But in between he came in (me still in fetal position and groaning) and proceeded to request my feedback on a diy project. Didn't say anything when I apologised and pointed out I was in too much pain to think about diy, but I could tell he was not happy. A little later he actually told me not groan so loudly!

A few days ago he was unwell himself. I offered him sympathy, drinks, medicine, told him to let me know if he needed anything, asked how he was feeling etc.

Marriage problems or not, surely it's not normal to be so cold to someone who is in pain? Just need some perspective - sorry for the rant.

Well yes, I would still expect compassion from a DH if you are in physical pain.
Having said that, I have a chronic condition and the level of sympathy I get from my OH varies. Sometimes I feel he's being unfeeling, and I tell him as much.

But on another level, even though you haven't asked - please don't stay together for the kids! He sounds awful, and you sound unhappy in your marriage.
You say you have a job and a support network of friends, and you sound pretty together to me. So I think you can make it alone.

I am biased in this- my parents stayed together mostly 'for the kids', until we the kids were grown up, and I wish they hadn't ....

No it's not normal. But tbh he sounded like an absolute arsehole before you even got to the bit about his attitude to your pain. I don't find the latter that surprising in a man who clearly has no respect for your values, opinions, job or contribution to the household. Is there anything good about him at all? Because you are painting a pretty grim picture. His dismissive treatment of you is not something you want your dc to be learning.

Thank you Maria and Eolian for your replies. Yes, he does sound pretty awful from what I have written. It wasn't always like that between us.. before we had the kids we were very happy. We still occasionally have a laugh together, but only rarely. If I told anyone how things are between us they would be very surprised. To our friends and family he presents a very different picture. Friendly, polite, etc.

Just in the interest of balance, he has many good sides - he's a loving dad, works hard to earn money and improve/renovate our home, is 100% reliable etc. But that's not enough, is it?

@Maria - yes, I do have a job, but it is freelance, so not very secure. I guess I could always get a regular job if it came to it, but not sure I'd be able to earn enough to stay in our current, very expensive area. Personally I don't mind living in a cheaper area, but if we split up, the last thing I want for my kids is to lose their friends as well.

@Eolian- during our counselling sessions I got the impression he did have at least a little respect for me and my opinions, contributions, etc. But when he feels frustrated and resentful towards me, the negative feelings take over and if there is any respect, he does not show it to me.

I have already spoken to a solicitor and got a rough idea of my position in case of divorce. It would be doable but tight. Heartbreaking for the kids, we would no longer be able afford a place with a garden for them to play in etc. Some days are ok (especially during the week when we don't see each other much) and I think we can just keep going like this... other days are soul destroyingly awful. I am so torn.

ps: so sorry you have a chronic condition as well :-( Hope it is not affecting you too badly in everyday life. At least it sounds like your OH is not totally unsympathetic.

In my case, this illness makes me feel quite self absorbed at times, and I find it difficult to think of anything else. it's a cycle of negative thinking, and I am trying to break it. Sometimes I wonder if it is really just me - if I could think more positively and pull myself together to do more of the things OH expects from me, everything might be fine.

Sorry but your husband sounds like grade A pr!ck. But that might be because I'm a lefty anti smacking liberal .....

I think on balance most marriages change after kids and become a real testament to your endurance levels, but the type of disrespect you outline doesn't sound as if its related to the stress of a young family, it just sounds like the real person he has always been and his expectations are coming to the forefront as his public persona cannot be upheld in private anymore.

Re the solicitor, has he not given you the option to ask that you stay on in your home [ if its owned] until the kids finish school and then sell it?

If as you say he is a good dad would he really not pull his weight when you are too ill to care for them regardless of whether or not you live together? If he wouldn't is he really the committed father you believe him to be?

Yes the kids are likely to be devastated but they are still young enough to bounce back and adapt if you can agree a routine on parenting that suits you all. My ex actually became a better dad after we split. He also was indifferent when I had a scare of a terminal illness. He recently admitted that it was simply because he had reached a point where he hated me, although we get on reasonably well now.

Ultimately if hes making you miserable and chipping away at your self confidence your health will suffer along with your kids development and their perception of normal family dynamics.

Is the example of your current relationship the one you hope they will seek out as adults.

Is your home life the one you want year on year out or will it just become another battle of endurance if so is it really worth it if he's not willing to change.....?

No, everything wouldn’t be fine. I’m sorry, but he is controlling and abusing you.

I tend to groan inwardly when I hear a poster say her unkind and unpleasant partner is a ‘great father/dad’, or that the OP herself is ‘by no means perfect’.

A ‘great father’ has many definitions: in your case I don’t know, of course, but it can mean (for example) that while the children find Daddy very entertaining, he doesn’t consistently do the hard everyday work. Or it can mean that the children have learned to be good and appreciative for Father because they are aware of his critical tendencies.

As to perfection: only people who are constantly criticised are keenly aware of, and quick to admit their faults, or would consider that anyone might really expect them to be perfect.

Miserable, perfectionist, controlling, critical men know how to present an artificially charming front, so it’s not surprising friends and family think he is fine.

Perhaps a word with Women’s Aid might help you. I think you need someone to confide in, some reassurance that it is not your fault, and perhaps some additional advice on what to do next.

Returning to your original question, it’s not normal and is very unkind to disregard someone in pain, let alone your own partner. It’s what I would expect from a controlling person though. I wonder if he targeted you because your health concerns made you vulnerable.

He doesn't care about you.
He doesn't respect you.
He shows you no kindness.
He belittles and criticises you.
He has sucked the joy out of your life.
You tap-dance incessantly to try to please him (and never will)

Is this the type of relationship that you aspire to for your children?
Because this is what will happen to them - this is acceptable and normal.

No idea what your chronic condition is but you might find it remarkably improves when this burden and drain is removed from your life.

ilove the fact that it used to be good doesn’t meant you have to put up with it being not good now... (if I had a pound coin for every time one of my parents said things used to be great...).

Surround yourself with support if you can. Try talking to your friends about this - it may help you to see their reactions when you tell them what it’s like on the inside (not that you need external validation, but you say you feel torn).

He's not a good dad, he treats you like crap and you are their mother.

I was in your position last year, married for 24 years to an uncaring man who was oblivious to my existence. He had no compassion and I was never quite good enough for him. He criticised, demeaned me and told me that no one would ever want me. I have no family (all deceased) and a very minute circle of friends but I did it, I threw him out but incredibly I almost let him come home after Christmas when I thought he'd changed. Men like that never change, yes they may disguise their true traits for a while but the poison always seeps out.

Let me tell you what will happen when you get rid of this guy (who is the worst kind of role model for his kids btw)

A) Your kids will be happier
B) Your health will improve due to reduced stress
C) You will begin a happy new chapter in your life

I am totally alone now with no help whatsoever but the tension has left my life. Yes I am a little afraid but I am free.

thanks again for all your messages. Reading them makes it all feel a bit more real to me.

Just to answer some of the questions:
"Re the solicitor, has he not given you the option to ask that you stay on in your home [ if its owned] until the kids finish school and then sell it?": We did talk about this, but there is too much mortgage left on the property. The solicitor said that in our case we would most likely have to sell the house, with me probably receiving a larger chunk of the equity because of my lower earning capacity.

Also - this is my insecurity speaking - I would dread to think what people around us would think if I got to keep the house. Everybody knows how hard he has worked on renovating the property. If I was to "kick him out" now that the place is almost finished, what would that look like??

"A great father": I think he is a good dad in most respects (except obviously the way he treats me). He often says that everything he does (working hard in his job and on the house, planning holidays) is "for the family". Not sure he does it for me, but I have no reason to doubt that the kids are his absolute priority. He has worked tirelessly turning our house from a neglected rundown hovel into a lovely family home. He comes home from work, has a play with the kids, then immediately starts to do diy or planning activities. He looks at me and sees someone who's tired, grumpy and shows little enthusiasm for all his efforts.

"He has sucked the joy out of your life." - that is exactly what I feel like sometimes when we are together, though I still have a lot of joy left in my life (kids, friends, hobby and work). Actually, I have a great life but it's built on rotting foundations - my marriage and my health.

Unforgiven2018: Wow, 24 years - well done for managing to turn your life around. If a friend had asked me for advise and was in your former/my current situation, I would of course have advised her to leave. Assuming you still felt some love for your OH, how did you find the strength to leave? Underneath all the resentment I still love my OH - the man he used to be, the man he still is when he around his friends, the man I see when I look at him through my children's eyes.

The problem is that it is not awful 100% of the time. It is awful 10% of the time, fairly unhappy 20%, 65% neutral and 5% good. As soon as we have a good moment, I doubt myself again... if only we could increase the good and decrease the bad, tip the balance. It's unlikely to happen I know. But he has changed a little after the marriage counselling. Not a lot, but still. Sorry I'm rambling. But the thought of growing old without him, the only person in the whole world who loves my children as much as I do, is heartbreaking.

I don't want to give up hope on him quite yet, but am not prepared to continue like this either. I would ask for a trial separation, but this would be so confusing for the children, and I doubt he'd go along with it.

To be fair I haven't exactly turned my life around. He was a compulsive gambler so quite different from your husband in that way but very similar in the way he treated me. It's hard to describe really other than he saw me as being on a whole different level far beneath the children. I remember one incident when I had the very worst flu and was in bed feeling horrendous. He had gone off to work and popped home during the day as he'd forgotten something. I heard him come in and honestly expected him to come upstairs to see if I needed anything, but no. He just picked up what he needed and left. I didn't leave, I threw him out last summer. Even then though I gave him another chance but by January I'd seen the light and told him it was final, and it is.

You say no one in the world will love your children the way he does, but what about loving you. One day your children will be gone and then what?

Hope you are doing bettet op. Noticed yhat you answered some ofy questions so a few comments.
Instead of selling the house could he not offer you a financial settlement where he pays you your percentage of the estimated value and keeps it. Then you wouldnt have "kicked him out the house."
However I think its a huge assumption that people would think that way equally people could think if he kept the house"what does a single man want with it why would he put his kids on the street"
Nevertheless please dont make decisiobs based on what people will think. One day those same people wont think about you at all because they are busy living their lives while you are misserable because of worry.

"He plays with the kids"
Is that all being a parent is?? If he had them on his own for a week are you confident he wpuld cope? That aside its good that they are his priority but you need to be too that eas part of the commitment mad

Sorry pressed post in error. Should read commitment made on your wedding day. If his efforts are all around what he sees as important without taking your needs into consideration then he isnt staying true to that commitment. There needs to be balance.
Perhaps counselling will help you both find that or be a bit of a reminder.