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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My instincts are telling me he`s having an affair (please read these signs for me) long

76 replies

Sakura · 07/05/2007 01:31

The last thing I need is another blow now, but I dont want to live with my head in the clouds. Ive had big problems with my mother (see the long-running thread), and then my MIL turned out to be a toxic control freak.
These days I donT know whether im coming or going but think my husband may be up to no good. I really hope Im just being paranoid, but my hunches have proved me right every single time in the past I dont even know if I can leave him even if he is, because I live in a foreign country (his country) where foreigners don`t have custody rights. I would rather stay married to him that get into a custody battle that I would probably lose, because I have no money and his family is loaded.
But anyway, this is what I have seen:

We met in university as mature students in the UK. There were lots of girls in the dorm where we met and we all got along well, and had a laugh. They were from his country. We all kept in touch after leaving, and I would say they are our mutual friends. He communicates with them more than me because they share the same language, and I was closer to some other friends on my course.
I dont have any male friends except for 1 gay friend from school and my brothers because I dont "get" the platonic friendship thing, but I know others do so Ive never minded the fact his friends are girls. Most of the girls including me have got married now. Anyway, the past few months he has mentioning one girl (M) now and again. She has been texting him with her news and things that she has been doing. She recently invited him onto an internet community, where they all share their news. Its not chatting, but more like posting a diary. I cant join because I donT speak their language. M is in her thirties and not married. Shes very attractive, and I would say shes his type. There was a national holiday here this week and everyone gets a week off work. DH told me that M has asked to come to ours for a holiday (we live in a lovely area by the sea). She tends to travel to meet people randomly because she has the money. She often goes to a foreign country or travelling to meet people. I was excited for her to come because I like having guests and showing people around our area. Me and DH were both excited for this visit, and arranged to do loads of sightseeing. AS the time for her to come drew closer, DH started getting lots of texts, sometimes late at night, like 11:30. Once I think he lied to me, saying he was getting special offers from the DVD rental shop, but he forgot that Im also a member, so I would have been getting the text too.
Anyway, she arrived. It was fun showing her around. But once I left the shower and they were on the sofa and they both shifted their position as I got walked into the room, as if they were getting up because I was there. It looked suspicious.
I have 7 month old DD so I was getting very tired looking after her constantly plus the sightseeing. After going to a restaurant one night I was really tired, but they were talking about getting a DVD to watch. It was already 10:00pm, so I said Id go to bed. THey dropped me off with the baby, and went to get a DVD (2 minutes from our house by car). I lied awake in bed waiting for them to come back, and it was about an hour later when they arrived. THey were laughing and joking in the living room, and when I walked in there was no "hi come and join us". They had a STarbucks coffee, so I knew they had been for a drive because STarbucks is miles away. I lay awake pondering all night. The next morning I couldnt look her in the eye. I offered her breakfast, but she said shed rather wait until DH woke up so we could eat together (she is a bit posh like that). I quietly had it out with DH in the bedroon, and asked him how hed feel if I went driving around with a man. He did look genuinely suprised, and said he just thought it was like being a student again, watching DVDs together. SO I cheered up and enjoyed her last day, thinking I was being paranoid.
WE dropped her at the airport yesterday morning, and she texted him in the afternoon to say thanks. He read out the (long) text for me.
Then late last night about 11:30 again, his phone received a message. He tried to ignore it, but I told him "youVe just got a message", He looked a bit suspicious. I looked at the phone and it said her name. I said "go on, read it out then". He read out bits, something about her wanting to meet his mum and dad next time . I couldnT sleep last night again.
This morning I told him I dont trust him and Im watching him with M. He got pissed off and left for work.
His dad has had a long-running affair that the family is just supposed to ignore, so this kind of thing exists in his family BUT he did encourage his mum to leave his dad. She chooses to sweep it under the carpet though.

In his favour:
1]He is in some ways quite innocent- he had no idea I was coming onto him when we met until I planted a kiss on his lips. He just said he never imagined I would be into him.
2]He really cares about what other people think (its his culture) so he may well have been trying to be hospitable when he took her for a DVD.
What do you think on reading this? And what the fuck do I do if he is having an affair, or about to have one?

OP posts:
BandofMothers · 07/05/2007 09:15

From the other side , I have friends who are men and I hate when they get girlfriends/wives who seem to instantly suspect me and dislike me when I haven't done anything. Tho she does sound a bit flirty, has she always been that way? If so she may not have realised you don't like it.
If she's doing things she didn't used to that's different. If she's acting the way she always has then be fair.
You must know her well enough to have a word with her about it. She may be horrified at the thought of how you're feeling.

Sakura · 07/05/2007 09:16

Hi , Thanks for all the replies. THey really help me put my thoughts in order.
notquitecockney, shes fluent in English. And even though I am a stressy and confrontational person I do have my good points. I dont think avoiding a confrontation would be a reason for him to lie about the text, especially as that was before she came to visit, and the thought that something was amiss had never even crossed my mind.

Heifer, I think I will start saving money regardless. THats just sensible. Also learning the language properly is a priority too.
Maybe they just havenT made the mental jump that he is married now. Its true that its never appropriate to text a married man late at night (on more than one occasion ) Plus the fact that she has never really contacted me, so shes his friend really. I would have thought then that it would be appropriate to contact me to thank me, being as I was the hostess. Not to contact my DH late at night.
Oh, I dont know what to think. Im going to sit him down tonight and explain that the rules are slightly different now that were married. I am thinking about the fact that one thing leads to another, and at what point does a lovely texty friendship lead to a closer friendship, then a confidant, then a "my wife doesnt understand me" friendship etc etc
Hes JApanese and were in Japan.

OP posts:
admylin · 07/05/2007 09:24

Sakura, dh wanted to go to work in Japan a couple of years ago and I was so scared ofthe culture shock - i was glad when he didn't get the job. I would say, the japanese bahave in a totally different way to europeans so it is hard to say if she was being flirty or if that's how normal friendship only behaviour is.
Are you enjoyinglife in Japan? It must be really hard going especially with the language problem. Domost japanese people speak english? I heard they didn't.

Anniegetyourgun · 07/05/2007 09:27

I'm sure you can handle it carefully if anyone can, Sakura. If nothing else, if it makes you feel bad then it isn't a good situation. He should at least be kind enough to meet you halfway.

Sakura · 07/05/2007 09:51

thank you, again. Annie, thats a nice thing to say- that you think I could handle the outcome. Whether its true or not, its still what I need to hear right now.
admilyn, yes life is okay here. They do speak English, but for some reason they are really bad at learning it compared to other nationalities (like the Chinese, say). But then again, the Brits arent known for being linguists are they, haha! I think on the whole, weird behaviour canT be passed off as being cultural, usually. Its possible that shes just not very streetwise. SHes quite posh, and perhaps very very innocent.
Its just that you hear that the wife usually the last person to find out about an affair, (like in my MILs case). Or that it was going on under her nose without her knowing and things like that. Maybe Ill just have to bookmark this incident. Let it go, but make a mental note of it.

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bubblymummy · 07/05/2007 09:52

Your DH sounds a bit naive and I think that point that when you meet up with an old college friend you tend to back into old college mode is quite true but she sounds a bit of a madam.

Try not to be confrontational but there's no harm in keeping an eye out.

However if this friend has a glamorous life I'm sure in a matter of weeks she'll have forgotten about this and move on to her next social event.

BandofMothers · 07/05/2007 09:55

Perhaps being a bit posh she is simply used to getting her own way and not having to worry about upsetting people. Let DH know it's not acceptable and see what happens. But do it in a lovely way he can't refuse rather than an old fishwife way

Of course you can handle it

Genidef · 07/05/2007 10:56

If I were you I would consider disrupting their little 'twosome' by interacting with her directly. So, you could have done something like send her an email after she sent her 'thank you text' to your husband saying, glad you had a great time etc etc, WE enjoyed seeing you. And maybe doing this periodically after she's sent a string of messages just to your husband - "Oh DH says you're up to xyz, WE thought it was great to hear from you." You may actually find she's someone you COULD be friends with if you get to know her separately and give her an outlet to do this. Maybe this is not too optimistic?! In any case "secret flirting" isn't much fun if it feels like it's not going to stay that way. If that's what she wants (or more) reaching out to her directly might put her off.

thegardener · 07/05/2007 13:26

i think it is good that you have been open with dh about your feelings & he obviously doesn't want this to come between you.

i think single people don't really understand what it is like to be married and have children so the texts late at night is probably due to that.

my dh & i don't have folk to stay we have a 14 month old ds it's not really appropriate, in the past we have had his friends over for lunch/coffee, everyone is happy!

drosophila · 07/05/2007 13:41

I have texted a male married friend late at night. I was drunk nd we had both been followinbg Big Brother so after the finale I texted him. Never crossed my mind that his wife woul dhave been pissed off.

I'll think twice next time.

contentiouscat · 07/05/2007 17:26

Sakura

I would say try to make her your friend too by texting her back as someone else said - personally I would keep an eye on her perhaps she is being thoughless or perhaps she does like your DH. The fact that you say he is slow to catch on about these things means he may not realise and as you say his father has already crossed that line so he has not been set a good example.

I can understand you being concerned about this and I would never say discount a hunch but there is nothing here to glaringly say he is having an affair though, perhaps just being a bit thoughtless.

thefuturesbright · 07/05/2007 19:22

well, I don't think he's having an affair yet, but let's face it

  • no sex life
  • a huge change in your relationship and lives now you have a baby in the house
  • 'not a marriage made in heaven'
  • living with a wife who is from a different culture and doesn't speak the language so will (inevitably) not be able to quite understand and join in lots of activities and jokes
  • who has a very difficult relationship with his mother
  • and along comes a nice girl from his student past who appears to like and value him

I smell trouble and you smell trouble - even if he doesn't.

Sakura · 08/05/2007 00:32

Thats a really good idea Genidef and the others who mentioned it. On one hand, I dont want her to have much of a role in our life now, but on the other, if I contact her, Im neutralising her "special" relationship, aren`t I.

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 08/05/2007 00:44

Learn the language! Fast! Dont make a big deal of it, dont let on that you are picking it up quickly. I'm surprised, tbh, that you say you havent learnt much yet. Especially now you are living in Japan.

My Aunt learnt Cantonese over a few years. (She had to really - family wouldnt speak to her in English or would leave her out completely). I still rather enjoy her spouting Cantonese here and there to folk who arent expecting it (from a white, middle class Englishwoman ).

It also helped her deal with really rude people in her DH's home town who would speak about her in Cantonese in front of her, assuming that she wouldnt understand.

It would probably save a lot of your anxieties, tbh.

Monkeytrousers · 08/05/2007 00:55

No way - they are taking the piss out of you, whether or not they are having it off - they have no respect. Do not put up with it.

What country are you in that you have no custody 'rights' as a mother?

Sakura · 08/05/2007 00:56

hi Vendivicki,
I do speak the language as well as can be expected because Ive only been here less than 2 years. The big problem is <span class="italic">reading</span> because they use Chinese characters. SO that means theres the normal alphabet plus the "picture" characters that have to be learned. So if I look at the character, it means nothing to me, and that is a real long-term project. Thats why the texts are a problem for me whereas if they spoke on the phone it wouldn`t be. But, I had a baby 7 months ago too and that has put me back a bit too.

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Monkeytrousers · 08/05/2007 01:01

Sorry China - if you have the financial means, leave. You can discuss things when you are in a legal position as a woman to be equal. You can fix you marriage on more equal ground. If you don't have the means or faimily to help you out, even if it's only them saying you are going for a visit and then stating your case..I'm very sorry for you.

I'm incensed that women are still , so powerless in the face of such instututional sexism.

Sakura · 08/05/2007 01:03

No monkeytrousers, Japan. Its really bad concerning divorced families. THey believe that once divorced, only one person (mum or dad) is allowed custody. Then there are still issues of racism here, so foreigners wouldn`t have a leg to stand on.

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Monkeytrousers · 08/05/2007 01:08

Hold your tongue and go home on an innocent 'visit', then where you have equal rights tell him it's not on. I wouldn't go back to Japan afterwards if i were you, whatever happens. I'm so sorry but if the state legitimises it, and so does his father...what man wouldn't?

Sakura · 08/05/2007 01:17

Thats what Im thinking. Mainly the father part. Because of my mothers issues, I`ve been reading a lot about parents and children. Apparently its really really difficult for children to admit to themselves that that their parents world view may be wrong. We are designed like that. So we repeat our parents mistakes to validate them i.e changing our behaviour would be saying our parents were wrong. Thats often too painful. So the father thing is really bugging me.

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Sakura · 08/05/2007 04:17

thefuturesbright, thats an interesting take on the situation (not friends with notacockney, are you :-)
That could be how it is from his side.
From my side: we met in the UK, fell in love and I returned to his country, even though I didnt know the language or the culture. I dont expect to be mollycoddled by him or MIL, but I DO expect basic respect from her, not snide comments, insults and the rest of it, especially as she knows I have no family here, and no support network (although Ive made friends). I wouldnt say that I just "dont get on with his mother". Its much more than that. Shes a bully, and not many Japanese women would put up with that kind of thing either- they are all tougher than they look.

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warthog · 08/05/2007 04:21

ok, i believe that school children are expected to learn 2000 characters in order to read / write the language reasonably. so if you can get hold of a book and start learning a couple every day that will help. knowing the reasons / history why the pictures look like they do will help you remember iyswim.

you don't actually know yet that anything is going on. he's denied it, and i think texting her is a very good idea. it sounds to me like she's got designs on him, even if he's not aware of it so letting her know in a subtle way that you're onto her is good.

also finding out about your legal position is a good move - what happens if you get them to the uk and then split. but it may not come to that.

Sakura · 08/05/2007 04:34

thanks warthog, good advice.
What Im thinking of doing is opening his texts, and seeing if there is any mail from her. If so, Ill copy it down (I can copy the characters quite well), and Ill show it to a friend who could translate it. THis would give me the jist of it. If I found something that wasnt really innocent, hed probably deny it. So Id not say anything, go home for a holiday, and "discuss" it with him from the UK.

Shes involved in another internet community in English, with other friends from the college, so this morning I wrote a "lovely" message on her page for everyone to see. It was about how lovely it was to have her as a guest, and I hope she wasnt too tired after all the sightseeing etc.

Im upset that I even have to think about these things, and Im wondering what that says about our marriage anyway, even if he isnt up to anything. Normally, the relationship would be on its way out anyway at this stage, but we have a DD, so it is worth trying to work things out. If I find that something is going on, Ill leave. I really hope there isnt, but I cant put my head in the clouds.

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warthog · 08/05/2007 04:44

i think that's a really good idea - to copy down the texts and getting them translated.

it sounds to me like there is a lot more going on than just a possible affair. you're not totally happy in the relationship, mil from hell - even by japanese standards, and you're in an alien culture with a small baby. that must be very, very hard. do you have a good friend in japan whom you can talk to?

Sakura · 08/05/2007 04:59

warthog, after reading your last post, I just cried.
It is hard, and I need someone on my side but I donT feel there is anyone. I really want to be strong for DD. I have my brothers I can talk to over the phone, who Im really close to, but no really close friends here that I could confide in like this.
Also, I dont remember if youve read that thread about mothers, but mine is insane. Im really very scared of her, which may have made it so easy for me to make the decision to move the other side of the world. If I moved back to the UK, I could stay with one of my brothers in his flat, but my nerves would be frazzled at the thought that my mum could turn up there and cause chaos (shes a drunk as well as having a personality disorder).
I have some friends in the UK I could stay with, but I couldnt really stay longer than a month or so before ID be outstaying my welcome.
So as you can see, I really want to believe that my husband is not up to anything. But I can`t get rid of my niggling hunch.

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