Talking back and rudeness from children?

[halbertswife]

How much "talking back" from your children is normal or do you allow without giving them discipline for it? Do you ignore it or do you warn them that there will be consequences if they continue to do so? Would you find it acceptable for a seven year old to repeatedly shout at the top of her voice at you everyday?

My partners daughter is becoming more and more unbearable to be around. And I don't know if I'm being unreasonable for feeling like there needs to be some "consequences" for being so rude everyday. I had a very awful childhood so I am asking here as my perception of what's normal and not normal may be skewed slightly.

I don't think it's acceptable. A warning, yes - don't answer back - but then a consequence. But that's my child. Here, it sounds like your partner is letting his daughter talk to you rudely, and he needs to deal with it in the first instance.

my son (sim age) is sometimes indignant - like I thought he just woke up his brother by chatting and he said ‘I didn’t! Tell mum DB’. Or he has a moment of strop (a scowl day) when I tell him to do something - like ‘why’s your coat not on DS?’ On the way in of school. But these reactions are over in a second it’ll two and we don’t really having a telling off dynamic - not with my little one either. I wonder about the lead up to these shouting matches - what’s happening? Is it the same with you and your OH?

I agree that as this is your partners child they need to be the one responsible for discipline. How your dp chooses to raise his child is his choice, parenting, boundaries, controls and consequences should be decided upon between him and the child's other parent if possible. And the rules should remain consistent in any house (in an ideal world).
But on the other hand at 7 your dp child should understand an acceptable and unacceptable way to talk to others. I would expect them to show off be naughty or a bit rude/cheeky on occasions (aren't all kids) but at the same time, at that age i would also expect them to have a level of understanding about manners and how important it is to try and control their temper.
So....I would bot have a problem with asking, in a polite and calm but firm manner(in front of your dp) please do not talk to me like that. You wouldn't like it if I spoke to you like that do not do it to me. Shouting is not acceptable then remove yourself from the situation.
You have every right to do that, especially if you do is not pulling her up on it.
If your dp doesn't like it then perhaps he should start parenting.

I think when people talk about "back chat" they are talking about children not obeying instantly or not agreeing with what the adult wants. I think that children are not in the Army and have the right to have an opinion and that they shouldn't be punished for that. Obviously, these opinions shouldn't be expressed rudely or nastily, but they don't have to agree with everything an adult says without question. They are people, not unquestioning robots.

I wouldn't put up with a shouting child, but what is it that you are arguing about? Are you being reasonable? Could you give the child some scope to make decisions, i.e. "you need to put on your shoes and coat, which one are you going to do first?"

Personally I think discipline and consequences by themselves would be doing the child of 7 a disservice.

What you need in addition to this is to train the child to feel emotion and express themselves in a normal healthy way.

When we lost my FIL my dd struggled too and I spoke to the school who were very good in giving extra support to her there, and in giving me tips at home so there was continuity in our approach towards her. It really helped her and me as they have experience of thousands of children with all sorts of issues and I’m a parent of only one who hadn’t been challenging until then so didn’t have much of a clue!

DD can be cheeky and picks up phrases from the adults around her very quickly. She sort of tries to mimic how DH speaks to me sometimes or how I speak to her and "parents" me. It's harmless enough but irritating. She's only 4. I take a little bit of back and forth but will nip it in the bud if it doesn't stop after a few minutes. I tell her it's enough and she's being rude and will remove something or warn her something nice will be cancelled etc. It seems to keep her on the straight and narrow.

Mine are 11 and 13 and there's a certain amount of good natured micky taking which goes on between us which is fine, but no i certainly wouldn't have allowed repeated shouting at the top of their voice at me. I also expect them to be polite to other adults, including close family friends, which they are.

I'm very sensitive about the whole concept of back chat because my STBXH had this tendency to see it as worthy of coming down like a ton of bricks. He had a very traditional 1950s style upbringing in a conservative American family and it really did skew his perceptions.

However, rudely shouting at a parent shouldn't be tolerated. What you do about it depends on context - sometimes walking away and not engaging is best, especially with teenagers - but children and teenagers do benefit from having boundaries in place. You and your partner need not agree with each other slavishly over everything and back each other up when the other is manifestly unreasonable, but you do need to agree how you are going to parent together.

Yes it a balance between letting children (who are people too) have an opinion and encouraging that (particularly when it relates to themselves) and how they express that opinion.

Shouting should never be used by anyone as a means to communicate but at the same time everyone deserves their voice to be heard - within the confines of the parent being in charge

I sympathise and feel for you. I deal with noisy young children by making the distinction between an 'outside' voice (loud) and 'inside' voice (quiet) saying "Please talk with your 'inside' voice." In short though, I simply will not be messed about. They seem to get the message eventually. However, I do not have to live with them!

My son 8yo is prone to the odd eye roll or huff and like a pp mentioned, can be indignant at times.
He wouldn't even think about shouting rudely at me, that would be completely unacceptable, there would be consequences for it and he knows that without having to test the theory.
As this is a step child it's not really your place to issue consequences other than to say you won't be spoken to in a rude way.
How long have you been together?
How often does partners daughter come over?

If you don't address this issue the child will eventually come across someone in authority over them who will not tolerate being treated in such a manner, and they will suffer the adverse consequences.

I don’t know. Our 7 year old is pretty rude. Interested in ideas!

My 8 yo is a little rude and back chats me too, so I recently brought in strikes.
He has 10 strikes a day, and each back chat or disobey, etc, is one strike, after 10 he loses privileges for the day.
He's doing well, only had a max of 3 strikes a day, over the week, but let's see how the weekend pans out.

I have a 6 and a 10 yr old, both of them are hugely opinionated, which idnever want to squash. But there’s a big difference between them expressing their opinion and me, as an adult, listening to it, to being shouted at. I’d never shout at anyone (I try not to anyway), so shouting and being rude to an adult isn’t acceptable behaviour. As someone said above, if they see shouting as the norm they will have a very rude awakening at some point.

I dont think other peoples opinions of whats acceptable will help you. You need to talk to your partner and see if they and the childs other parent deems it as acceptable. The answer about how to handle the situation you are in sits there.