Am I right to consider a lie a betrayal?

[buddling1]

A couple of years ago I discovered my husband (an ex smoker) was using vaping cigarettes, he knew how much I hated them and so had been doing it behind my back but with other people knowing about it, needless to say I felt he was playing me for a bit of a fool and very betrayed. He promised it was a lapse in judgement and told me he would never do it again. A couple of months later while on holiday I found he had bought a vape device and had hidden it away where we were staying. Very angry and upset at having been betrayed again I confronted him. Yet again he said it was a huge mistake, he knew he had upset me and promised it would never happen again....guess what! Yet another few months down the line and I find another one and loads of the little smoking cartridges, not even well hidden! This was it for me, I was utterly devastated that he could again break his promise knowing how much it had hurt me. He said although he had lied it wasn't really bad as it was just about something small. I couldn't get across to him that it didn't matter what it was about it was a continued betrayal of trust and yet another broken promise. I am normally quite robust but this actually had me crying myself to sleep...he listened to me do it. So, a year and a half down the line and I see what looks like a charger for a vape device, in his office in fairly plain sight is the thing itself. I can't quite get my head around how someone who heard me cry myself to sleep could honestly break the same promise yet again. I am now a bit numb, I feel like there is no trust left. Yet again he has made the choice to betray me, go behind my back and do the one thing I literally begged him not to do. I have confronted him again and yet again he says it's not really serious as it's not like he is doing anything terrible or having an affair. He can't see that he has broken the same promise over and over, he says me being upset is overkill. Help me...is it me or am I right to feel that when he has promised so many times and broke that promise that a betrayal is a betrayal regardless of the content?

Massive over reaction. If he was banging someone or sneaking alcohol a little bit different.

Vaping is not the hill you want to die on OP.

Give the guy a break and let him vape (even though I really can't stand them, it's just not an issue)

I really don’t understand why you are reacting like this OP. You’ve created this problem. Vaping isn’t a problem. It’s notsmoking and it’s not drugs. It’s something people do to try and avoid smoking cigarettes. You should be really pleased he’s trying to quit his habit and be supportive. Instead you are being a massive drama lama. You sound awful. You’ve then done this “betrayal” “lie” thing which has made it all into some sort of soap opera. No wonder he’s hiding it! You sound completely unhinged! Your reaction isn’t normal. Your expectations aren’t normal. You are being really really weird. If he was lying about drugs or porn or gambling then I’d get it but you really need to get a grip. Seriously. Crying yourself to sleep because you “caught” him vaping is like crying yourself to sleep because you caught him stroking bunny rabbits. Do yourself a favour and go see a therapist about your controlling nature before it ruins your life

This past week on MN we seem to have had some highly sensitive highly strung ladies with some issues.

I couldn't comment because I wasn't sure how I could help Vatican screeching, or uncontrollable (in front of children) emotional reaction to porn in a bathroom, or even in context comment about open marriage. But here I think I might be able to assist.

1. My mum always told me a promise is comfort to a fool. I would add, if you extract said promise by emotional blackmail, it is virtually not a promise.

1. Some people cannot handle confrontation and for an easier life (and so as to not admit failure) agree to demands.

1. If he left the charger and associated paraphernalia out in full view, maybe he has decided he doesn't want to hide anymore. Which is a good start, no?

1. I'm with you on vaping, it's bloody ridiculous and there have not been enough and long enough studies to see the actual impact on the body. That alone should be stopping people. But not all people are me who after children has become risk averse. oh and I used to smoke.

I wondered whether this was a spin off from the porn thread too.
Details changed a little to try and make a point.
Lying is not acceptable. But if you don't give someone the arena to voice their opinions without judgement or melodramatic, motional manipulation tactics then how do you expect them to be able to do just that.
I imagine that when you demanded he promise to stop he agreed just to calm you down and soothe you.
The principle here is not whether he lied or what he lied about, the principle here is.....why do you think that your husband must be controlled. Why do you think you can tell him what he can and can't do, your ideas and opinions are yours, he is allowed to disagree.
You don't have the right to tell him that he can not do something perfectly legal, that really has no direct affect on you. Just because you don't like it or want to do it yourself. He is an adult for God's sake.
You do have the choice to end your relationship because he doesn't agree with you or shares different opinions if you so choose. But in my mind to end a marriage (probably when there are children involved) over this wouldn't be the wisest decision in the world

He's an adult but you're treating him like a petulant child. Maybe your massive overreaction is why he feels he has to lie. I'd also guess that he was a smoker when you met?

He is an autonomous adult and can make his own life choices. You are crying because you cannot control him and the choices he makes. That really doesn't reflect well on you. Have a think over why it is so important for you to control what he does and if that is really an acceptable way to treat another adult.

As far as my response, as far as I am concerned whatever your dealbreakers are, they're your own. External views of it aren't really relevant, so if a 100 other women said "it wouldn't bother me/that's silly", it doesn't matter: it's your life to lead. (I do think there must be better examples than vaping).

If your partner consistently then lies and it's evident they will not stop doing x, then you have a choice - follow through on "this is a dealbreaker for me" or not. What you won't be able to do is stop them doing x whether lying about it or openly, because they've already clearly demonstrated they won't.

You are being very controlling (it’s not affecting you very directly is it?) and a common response is to feeling controlled is to lie. Massive overreaction - nicotine is very addictive - and not something he just does to be selfish. I think he needs you to accept he has this addiction and support him if he wants to reduce or stop.

YANBU at all OP. If it’s a dealbreaker for you, you stick to your guns.

I’m with you OP.

I can’t abide liars and I can’t abide being made a fool of and being the last to know. The vaping itself isn’t as important as those things.

So you need to ask yourself if there’s anything you need to do differently to be helpful to your relationship. Whether you’re reacting to the vaping in a way that makes your partner not feel able to confide in you and help him if he does want to get be up. He may even want to vape which is his choice and then it’s up to you whether this is a deal breaker.

So honest conversation time where you can hopefully get him to sheare his thoughts and feelings and work out a way forwards from there. This now isn’t about you and your feelings as I’m sure he knows full well your position!

You forgave him multiple times so it can't be a massive deal as you make out. A normal person would have give him one chance max.

Have you discussed with him why you have a problem with "vaping" and educated yourself about "vaping"? (The " " around vaping is because someone said it might not be vaping.) Some "vaping" doesn't merit that eg child abuse images but if it was vaping then there might be a compromise or dialogue to be had. Eg he can smoke his vape out of the house.

My first thought that this was about the porn thread too.

Op said it's not about vaping - "Yes vaping not a big issue, if I hadn't specified what it was he was doing though and simply said he had broken the same promise and betrayed my trust four times though would your responses have been different? The idea I am exploring is does it matter what it is about, is breaking one trust any worse or better than breaking another?"

The OP is being fairly naive to think that it doesn’t matter what the promise was. In her mind a promise is a promise and it is black and white. In reality we all tell fibs for various reasons. We differentiate fibs and white lies by justifying we are saying them to avoid hurting someone else’s feelings. Eg Your new hair colour really isn’t bad/actually it suits you to make someone feel better or simply because we do t want to tell the truth and want to get out of an awkward situation. The OP’s husband said something similar Obviously there is a difference between little white lies and big untruths that endanger others or are criminal.

Using words like betrayal indicate relationship and intimacy issues and the replies will differ. If the husband is visiting prostitutes and promises never to do so again, that is very different than the husband promising not to leave the cap off the toothpaste. It is not as black and white as the OP wishes to ‘explorations’ to be and promises have to be put into perspective in a mature way.