Can an emotional abuser change?

[Messedup2018]

Hi, I have tried to call woman’s aid tonight but there is no answer, I would really appreciate some advice.

My partner moved out on Saturday, In a very unpleasant way, I have been with him 22 years and have 3 children.

He has always been slightly controlling, but in the last year things have gotten really bad, I lost a lot of weight and nearly had a breakdown, he seemed to improve but then he started getting nasty again. He’s now begging to come home and has been to the doctors and started citropram? He’s also considering cognitive behaviour therapy.

I genuinely don’t know what to do. Can anyone who has been in this situation offer any advice?

Thanks to all of you.

I have looked up non occupation orders, I’m not sure how that would work as I have no evidence of his abuse. It’s just my word against his, a friend has witnessed some and my mum and brother have seen a bit.

I’m scared if I go down that route it will make him very angry, he threatened to burn the house down with me in it the day I kicked him out (I was only able to get him out of the house by calling his dad, as I knew he would be embarrassed by it).

I have contacted a solicitor, and am waiting for a call back from WA.

I'm really sorry you are dealing with this.
The threat to burn the house down is chilling. Please do speak openly to WA and specifically tell them about that threat.

Unfortunately there are purpose built cages that can be fitted to the inside of letterboxes to stop burning material being pushed through doors for exactly this situation. The fire brigade fit them.

The very last thing i want is to scare you any further but please do tell WA.

Also for those who have gone through this, how did you explain it to your children? Mine are 10, 8 and 4.

And how did you cope without having a drink every evening? I’m not getting drunk, but I’m drinking more than usual.

I explained it in as factual a way as I could, about mummy and daddy, making it clear they were not the cause of it happening (common misconception of children, apparently) and that we both still loved them and always will. Then the conversation became more about practicalities: where will daddy live? Where will we live? When will we see daddy? That kind of thing.

Questions came back to: but why are you leaving? regularly for a while, but whatever I said, they didn't really get it. Unless they are afraid of him, I think the reasons can be too grown-up for them really to understand.

By the way, if he's bombarding you with messages, be strict with yourself about how much you listen to. Do you really need to listen to them at all? Probably not. Keep them, they might be useful evidence at some point. But don't feel you owe it to him to listen. You owe it to yourself to put a distance between you and him.

He just asked to call, I said no, then I had 12 missed calls in 4 minutes and constant messages. I didn’t reply and I bolted the front door,

I have spoken to refuge who have given me details of organisations who help with non molestation orders.

I have an exam on Thursday, which he knows about, I don’t think I’m going to do very well.

I think I would never want to say someone can't change.
But realistically anyone who is abusive has to do the following in order to change.

1. totally understand that they are abusive, like an alcoholic admitting to being an alcoholic.
2. totally understand all the behaviour that is abusive, including the 'mild' stuff
3. go to a really good counsellor, and start to get therapy, intense, serious and long term.
4. start to change every single thing about the way they relate.

The above is so hard that I doubt many people ever really do it. It is like unpicking your personality and putting it back together. It is also certainly somethign that has to be done by the person AWAY from the family home etc, and would take a long time, years.

So, realistically in term sof letting back an abuser, the answer has to always be no.

Well he clearly is not prepared to change at all.
He's showing you a total lack of respect by pestering you when you have asked for space.
Because he doesn't give a shiny shite what you want.
It's all about him.
It always will be.
CBT won't help.

A perpetrator course might help a bit.
But if he is serious then he can't be with his 'victim' while doing it anyway.
And it will take 1-2 years!!!
And it only helps in about 30% of cases.

You know you are doing the right thing here.
You cannot and absolutely should not put up with any of this.
You are right that your DC will repeat what you are doing as that is their 'normal' for relationships.
Please block him for now.
You can unblock him when you need to but you really need to block him to get some headspace.
All this 'harassment' from him is probably all the proof you need for the order.

Just adding to what hells says, that even after 2 years away from you, and completion of a perpetrator's course, he would still have almost zero chance of lasting change in a relationship with you, because there are old patterns to unlearn.

Anyway, it's all academic, because he clearly has not the slightest chance of changing.

Stay strong. This bit is hard, but if you take him back for a quiet life, getting even to this point again will be even harder.

Sorry, meant "he clearly has not the slightest INTENTION of changing".

What my ex learnt from a perpetrator course is that because he wasn’t as bad as the other men in the course, he wasn’t abusive

The Lundy Bancroft book was a real eye opener for me and gave me the push I needed to leave my ex

He insists that he has changed but also tells me he was never Abusive (the police think differently)

He insists that if things were that bad I should have left earlier. Yet calls me a selfish bitch for leaving

The language our children have heard since I initiated the divorce has been awful yet he denies ever saying it

He doesn’t feel guilty about any of his behaviour as he keeps telling me he wasn’t at fault (it was all me apparently)

Leave and dont look back

Google grey rock. Have as little communication with his as possible
Keep everything written down so that if you’re wobbling, you can refer back to all of the nasty things he’s said and done

I’m wobbling now tbh. He’s picking up kids tomorrow so I will see him. I’ve got the Lundy book but it’s quite hard going, he doesn’t fit any of the types of abusers, just bits here and there.

My 8 yr old asked if daddy got called to our neighbour’s house, (ex is a tradesman) could he park on our drive? It’s such a little thing but it made me realise how confused he must be. Argh! This is so hard!

You will get there, Messedup. I know what you mean about the Bancroft book. I read bits of it and it didn't make much sense. I read it again later and check, check, check.... The Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid is brilliant.

My husband has been referred to a perpetrators course. I told the social worker that he won't benefit from it even if he stays the course. Still waiting for dates for that. The books for the Freedom Programme are helpful. For me they make a lot more sense in the context of doing the programme with real people. I hope you get through to WA. They will help you with the children. Also Childline is helpful

I know what you mean about Lundy Bancroft, too. When I read it, I was so in tune with all XH's justifications, I didn't see it all. But it is easy to read about awful men and think, "oh, but he's not that bad."

What I found really helpful was to give myself a period of time during which I would not rethink things, just get comfortable with the decision I had already made. I can't remember how long it was - maybe it started as 3 months and then got changed as the end got closer? In any case, it meant I could just shut down any worries of "am I doing the right thing ending this?" and say to myself, I'll think about that later.

There is no need to wobble. He is doing absolutely nothing to think of you and put you first. Ergo he isn't changing.

You have done the right thing. It's tough right now. Even in three months it'll be easier.

Following this thread because the title may as well have been in BLOCK CAPITALS for me.

I started my own thread about two weeks ago. You might find some advice there and I might pick up some here.

I've taken steps to begin separation process, don't think 'd'h realises that I won't be changing my mind yet. He thinks because he doesn't go out drinking regularly and does long hours at work that I shouldn't have any cause for complaint
In the past two weeks, I've told him that our marriage is over, contacted mediation service, made an appointment with free legal advice centre and told my immediate family that my marriage is over.

It'll be a long journey but it'll be worth it.

not in my experience no. abusive ways and coping mechanisms are so ingrained in their personalities, change is not even an option (in my ex case)

also mediation with an abusive ex does not work. i tried it. he manipulated, withheld information, put on a mask of respectability etc. ultimately we didn't create an agreement - we were discharged rather abruptly as it happens.

He is so deluded about himself and his capabilities its creepy. I cant look at him -i get awful awful vibes from him.

Thats me, 2 years separated and divorcing this year. I keep reminding myself that if he was a reasonable decent man, id still be married. Therefore hoping for reasonable conduct during the separation/divorce is foolish.

Hes still got me where my expectations have to be on the floor to avoid being let down, disappointed, angered etc.
OP trust yourself. Trust that your instincts have got you to where you are today and that you can and will find a way. x

@sosog00d the only hope I have for mediation with 'd'h is that it doesn't cost money and I think this will be what will swing it, and the fact that he will realise that I have no qualms about doing this legally if it's not resolved through mediation.

Have ye got dc together?

Typed a long message and managed to delete. We have, yes.

Always worth trying mediation if you think you can appeal to their better nature. I mean that in a non-cheeky way.....I couldn't.

I always indicated legal route was last resort if other options failed, which they have. Now going to have solicitor bills neither of us wanted.

I simply cannot work with him. He probably wanted it to turn out this way. Fits his 'victim' narrative.

I got the victim response to our marriage is over too.

Dragging it out for a further two years and beyond though hasn't helped either of you, did you move out with dc?

no. he did after 9 months... very convoluted process. things are settling thankfully but its been mega tough

I second the Lundy Bancroft books. "Should I stay or should I go" is very very good. also the freedom programme. it's insightful.

stay strong OP. it took me nearly 30 years to realise and accept that abusers don't change. what a waste of my best years. don't waste any more of your life on him. move forward and seek your own happiness, in whatever shape that is. stay strong. trust me, his weepy appeals will soon change when he doesn't get his own way. they will turn to threats to you and himself (empty as they are tactics) but you have to stay firm and protect yourself and DC. My Ex has threatened suicide a number of times. I have called the police to rescue him, given him the Samaritans number, called his GP for him. everything except take him back. because it's manipulation ( and I can assuage my conscience by getting other agencies involved to help him rather than me being his constant rescuer). guess what, he tells them all that he is fine. funny that