When to stop fighting for a child.

[DextroDependant]

This could be long but here goes.

My sister had a daughter, her and her ex split up, he was in and out of prison and my sister fell into drug abuse. She really wasn't a good parent to her little girl and would often go on benders, sometime taking her daughter with her to a friend's house and her and the friend would get wasted and the kids would send for themselves.

The daughter did not have a good life. We tried to step in, contact the school, social services etc but no one was interested.

One weekend when the dad was out of prison my sister took her little girl round, dropped her off and went out on a bender. When she returned a week or possibly weeks later the dad said she couldn't have her back and he kept her at his mum's with him. Rightly so at the time.

Fast forward a couple of years with very sporadic contact, my niece still lives with her dad and his new partner. They have issues of their own and social services involvement but niece is looked after.

My sister got off drugs. Went to court hot access and was allowed to see her daughter supervised my either me or our other sister. She became pregnant again and social services immediately became involved.

Then she started dealing drugs, of course for caught and and when the dad found put he stopped contact again.

It has now been 18 months, she received a suspended sentence, had her baby who social services are supporting her with but they are happy with her care.

She went back to court for access to her first daughter and was allowed to write to her, building up to phone calls and eventually supervised contact.

However she is pregnant again. When she told her first daughter this in a letter she has got upset and said she doesn't want to write any more.

My sister is going crazy, pestering the social worker, trying to get our other sister to talk to her on her behalf, talking of going to court again.

I think it's time she accepts that her daughter doesn't want contact for now and leave communication open for when/if she does change her mind but I don't know what to suggest to her.

Our other sister had regular contact with our niece but I am not allowed because I was supervising contact at the time my sister got raided for drug dealing and nieces dad thinks I knew about it an lied to him. (I didn't know and wasn't involved but he doesn't believe it).

So how can my sister let go, what should she do next?

I think counselling would be a start?

My niece is 10 now.

In your sister's shoes I would write one final letter and ask it to be passed on. In this letter I would tell my daughter that I understood her decision and accepted that it was my behaviour that had caused it. I would let her know I wasn't upset with her at all and that I would always be waiting if she changed her mind. Then I would leave her alone.

I think your sister should continue to write letters to her daughter, but bear in mind that the daughter won’t want to hear about her other children right now. Even if the child doesn’t want to write back (which is her right ) the court order at present is for the mum to write to the child, and she should in my opinion stick to this and send the letters to the social worker as usual. As far as I can tell the social worker hasn’t said that letters to the child won’t be passed on, only that the child doesn’t want to write back.

Your sister probably could do with speaking to someone who can explain how her daughter is feeling. Her daughter is probably very upset that her mum didn’t/couldn’t look after her, but now is somehow able to look after her siblings. Quite understandable. Your sister needs to take responsibility for what happened if she is to rebuild a relationship with her daughter in future.

For the moment I suggest that she gives it time. I’d also suggest she considers an implant or a coil. Sorry to be blunt but if she has more children the chances are it won’t help the situation.

Your sister abandoned her daughter then went on to have two more, its no wonder she is upset so far as the daughter can see her mum didnt want her but wanted two others. She feels worthless, she feels she wasnt worthy for her mum to change and make an effort but then she goes on to change for two other kids. No wonder she doesnt want contact. Its like turning the knife all the time. Let the child be.

I did agree with @Stormwhale about one final letter but actually I think @notanevilstepmother also has a good idea about writing but saying she doesn't expect a reply back.

I have already suggested the implant. She doesn't need to add to the situation and 2 under 2 is difficult for anyone.

I can’t blame her father for hating her mother, she dropped her child off and left her for a week or weeks to go on a bender. She went back on drugs and dealing after she was off them. I can see why he doesn’t trust her. To be honest trusting an addict is not sensible. I’m pleased she is clean now, but I’m sure he must wonder if it’s going to stay that way, or if his daughter is going to get hurt again.

Please make sure she understands about not writing about her other kids. I know it’s hard as they are a big part of her life, but her daughter needs to know her mum is thinking about her at the moment.

If she had been that interested she would have changed for her child. Its a bit late now to expect any kind of love from a child she fucked over for her own gain.

I don't blame him at all. He is not perfect, far from it but he stepped up when his daughter needed him. She was left there without so much as a change of clothes and he sorted her out, got rid of her nits, got her into school. Respect to him for taking his responsibilities seriously.

I will suggest that to her. She misguidledly wrote that she wanted her daughter to chose a name for the new Baby, thinking it would make her feel involved. I will suggest she doesn't mention them.

If only it was that simple FabbyChix.

Her behaviour at the time was dreadful, but it doesn’t mean that she did it to fuck the child over for her own gain. What did she gain? Not happiness that’s certain.

People who are addicted do terrible things. They hurt people. They should take responsibility for this, but it doesn’t mean they should never be allowed to move on.

It’s impossible to know, she might have liked the idea of choosing the name. She shouldn’t feel bad for trying, and she should try to remain calm and give it time. Every mum has had their 10 year old daughter get cross with them for something, it’s normal. It’s just much harder in this case because it will take longer to heal.

Poor kid has been hurt too many times and can't take it any more. Your sister will have to wait until she's ready to risk being hurt again. It's right that she shouldn't be forced as no one can guarantee she won't be hurt again.

It’s difficult because DN may say that she doesn’t want contact to try to protect herself, but actually if mum does stop contact she may be very hurt by that and feel like mum has chosen her new babies over her.

It really depends if DN said that in a moment of hurt or whether it’s really her considered opinion that she would be better off without her mum full stop.

I guess the only way is for the family to talk it through fully with her, so DN feels in control of her decision and understands that her mum would still like to see her even if DN is angry with her.

I think in my sister's head she knows that it is different this time, she is clean and stable and will stick to contact without messing up.

BUT how is anyone else supposed to know that. He said is saying it but it is hard to trust someone's word when they have let you down.

That's what's frustrating her, that she knows in her own mind that she won't let her down but she isn't getting the chance to prove it.

I would absolutely not write one last letter.
She needs to keep the communication open or that kid will feel totally abandoned
She is 10. An age when kids start thinking deeply about stuff, acting up, rebelling and getting very stroppy.
It is her right to be angry at her mother and to punish her.
Its her mother's responsibility to take it and go with it.
Keep writing letters, don't expect a reply but let the child know she is loved.

Time will come and she will want to talk to her mum. She will have to prepare herself that it won't be straightforward.
But if she is serious about maintaining a relationship with her child she has to do it.

My DS's birth mother has never done anything good for him. She didn't even feed him when he was a tiny baby. She has caused distress and mayhem at various points in his life.
He still wants to know her. When he is ready.

As difficult as it is for everyone we have to respect that and try and prepare him.
Because we are adults, his parents and we love him.

All the adults in this child's life need to put her first

It's so complicated. I came on thinking it is best she backs off and leaves her daughter alone but now I am thinking that actually some posters are right and it would make it worse if she gives up now.

What a messy difficult situation.

Goodness me. Your sister thinks she isn’t being given a chance to prove it’s different this time. She absolutely is. But the only way she is going to prove she’s there no matter what is to continue writing letters even if it takes another 10 years or more. Writing a last letter would unequivocally be abandoning her dd all over again.

I think someone really needs to sit your sister down and explain to her what it must feel to be this 10 yo girl. I have a dd the same age and I’m pretty appalled that your sister cannot see how selfish that would be. She’s attributing a very adult understanding of the world on a 10 yo.

Contact doesn’t need to be a two way thing. Ever. This is about your sisters dd healing. Nothing more. Your sister is an adult. High time to act like one and get some decent therapy.

If some time in the future she manages to have a relationship with her dd that will be a wonderful plus.

I came on thinking it is best she backs off and leaves her daughter alone but now I am thinking that actually some posters are right and it would make it worse if she gives up now.

It would only make it worst for your sister. If you or your sister actually care about the child you would respect her wishes of no contact.

i think your sister should back off now and give her DD some peace. The idea of a letter saying she respects her daughter's wishes but will always be there in the background loving her and hoping they can reconnect when she is older is a good one. That gives your niece some autonomy but leaves the door open for the future.

Mediation so that the child can talk through things through with her mother should be offered

I think this is a really good idea, with a child psychologist who has relevant experience ideally, because they will be able to help your niece process their feelings and understand their situation in an age appropriate way and give guidance to the mother and father and other adults around her. I think this would be more useful to your sister as well as your niece than just counselling for your sister. Your sister could see what the social worker and the father think?

I don't agree with phelan's and greendale's and similar comments at all. Your niece is going to have all sorts of other feelings now and for a while yet, and they need to be unravelled. There is also nothing to suggest that she will not benefit from a relationship with her mother (and you, for that matter) long term.

I disagree Greendale. A child will say they want to be left alone when they actually NEED to not be left alone. And they aren't adults, and shouldn't be held responsible for not knowing their own minds.

if this child loses contact with her mother based on something she said at 10 years old, whose fault is that? Not hers.

The offer of contact must remain constant, it must be there, and waiting for her if she decides to pursue it.

The mum doesn't deserve one last chance, actually, she deserves nothing. But she has a RESPONSIBILITY to meet her daughter's needs, and this time she MIGHT fulfil it.

I wonder if the niece has the concept of unconditional love?

My kids know I love them - they know that they don't have to love me back. I believe this helps them process their emotions when they're angry with me - they are allowed to 'hate' me without fear of losing my love.

Perhaps niece needs to know it's ok to not love her mother, and that her mother's love doesn't have to be returned, and that contact from someone who loves you doesn't mean an obligation to love them back?

Qvar
Exactly - unconditional love. That’s what I was trying to convey. I didn’t know what it meant when I was a child I just knew there was something terribly wrong with me. My mother was very spiteful even to the degree of telling me my deceased father wouldn’t have loved me if he knew what I was really like. So I only learnt about unconditional love when I was well into adulthood. And it was really hard being me. It’s probably why I’m so incensed by this mothers actions and I cannot believe backing off would be for the best.

Your niece is probably equally unhappy and confused. Her daddy can’t stand her mummy and she knows this. Her mummy is unreliable and abandoned her. Two adults, who aren’t doing enough adulting. Where is your niece in all of this?

The letters should reflect how loved and unique she is. And she will need this repeated often.

@DextroDependant I think your sister needs counselling. She needs to process what she has done to her child and to get her head around it because it is huge.

I agree with people about writing and not expecting a reply.

Maybe counselling will give her some insights into her experiences and to what her daughter has gone through.

Your sister should continue to write the letters and pass them to the SW

The SW can let her know she will keep the letters until she is ready to read them

The letters should be kept light and airy.

A child cannot make this decision. Girls especially need their mothers.

You can’t give up on your child - well not a ten year old anyway!