Is he an arse or should I be more tolerant?

[chloetheudder]

My husband and I have been married for 13 years and we have two kids. We are 40 this year and have been together since we were 22. He has always drunk more than me and in our younger years I spent many a night feeling worried/pissed off and sleep deprived as he drunkenly got lost, lost his belongings and got on wrong trains, buses etc. He also spent money we didn’t have on going out and ran up a lot of debts. I found it very disrespectful and aggravating and let him know that on a regular basis. I felt quite strong contempt towards him as I felt that he was being utterly selfish.

He has since vastly improved - we almost split up about 10 years ago, initiated by him and I was devastated, but he had an epiphany that he did want to be with me after all so since then he has massively changed his tune and grown up as a way of showing me that he wanted to make it work.

We now have two kids, he has a great job, we have a beautiful house and no debts etc. and we have a good life. He still drinks though. Not on the same scale as before but I hate it when he drinks. I hardly drink and I find him blank, vacant and like a non-entity when he’s been drinking - he is never aggressive or rude, but it’s just boring and there’s no point trying to have a conversation. I often tell him I think he drinks too much but he just disagrees.

He now drinks Thurs-Sun usually with 3 days off a week. Maybe something I said did go in as he used to drink every night! He’ll drink 2-3 drinks a night minimum. Usually bottles of IPA at home. This is generally alright with me even though I don’t love it. When he goes out and gets drunk (probably about once or twice a month and he probably drinks more like 5-6 bottles of IPA) he comes home stinking of alcohol, has a blank look and usually falls asleep within half an hour. He basically might as well not be there. He has come home tonight at 8.30pm stinking of booze. I told him I was pissed off and he didn’t really respond so I just told him to go away and he went to bed and fell asleep.

Everything else about him is good - he is cheerful, proactive and a lovely father, but I still find his drinking disappointing, boring and annoying.

Should I be more tolerant or would you feel the same way as me? I’m not sure what I can do about his drinking as I’m definitely not an enabler but he is really stubborn and thinks it’s not a problem. I don’t think it’s bad enough to leave him as there are a lot of other good aspects to our relationship and life together, but I just hate this one thing and resent him for it. I don’t mind when he goes for 1-2 drinks after work but when he comes home late, I get pissed off. I think he drinks more than is healthy but he’s not an alcoholic. I guess it’s just that we are incompatible on the drinking side of things... PS I realize I sound like a complete misery. I promise I’m generally an upbeat, dynamic person-this is just the one thing that irritates the shit out of me!

I'd feel the same as you. Personally I'd interpret he has a 'drink problem' (the description people use for an alcoholic who doesnt conform to the sterotype). But when alcohol is that important and ingrained in his life this is most likely the case.

Many people will come on here and tell you there's nothing wrong with his drinking. In varying forms they'll have reasons why he should drink what he wants.

You have incompatible views on this subject. If nothing ever changed, how long would you stay with him?

I wouldn't personally have any problem with this but as you do, you need to think how much of a problem it is and if you want to put up with it for much longer

Well you don't sound like a complete misery but I am wondering what you thought relationships should be when you were younger because...

He has always drunk more than me and in our younger years I spent many a night feeling worried/pissed off and sleep deprived as he drunkenly got lost, lost his belongings and got on wrong trains, buses etc. He also spent money we didn’t have on going out and ran up a lot of debts. I found it very disrespectful and aggravating and let him know that on a regular basis. I felt quite strong contempt towards him as I felt that he was being utterly selfish.

I would have dumped him back then. Why on earth didn't you? Very few people are all bad, so of course there would be attractive things about him, but what made you think that if you weren't happy in your early 20s with it you'd be any more happy in your 40s?

You say that you don't feel it is bad enough to leave him over now - well that's the thing, once you're got children and a mortgage etc, it becomes a much tougher decision.

And you can't do anything about his drinking. Which is why you don't marry, procreate with or tie yourself to men like this in the first place.

It might not sound very helpful but you don't want to leave him but you don't like it, never have, and he has no intention of changing. So I don't know what anyone is going to be able to advise, tbh.

I wouldn’t like it. But it wouldn’t be up to me if he drinks alcohol, because he’s an adult. You’ve explained that you don’t like it and why and how it impacts on you, which you had every right to do. He has chosen to disregard it, which he has every right to do. You can’t make him stop drinking and You don’t have a right to try. Now you have to decide how important it is to you. You’ve said it’s not worth leaving over and if that’s the case then you’re just going to have to put up with it. TBH though, reading this post has left me with the feeling you don’t actually like him very much and if that’s the case then maybe you need to reconsider whether it’s worth leaving over.

Many people will come on here and tell you there's nothing wrong with his drinking. In varying forms they'll have reasons why he should drink what he wants.

The thing is, he can drink what he likes. He hasn't lied, he hasn't deceived, he hasn't changed. There isn't anything wrong in that respect.

He is exactly who he was nearly 20 years ago.

The OP hasn't changed either. She has never liked it and and still doesn't.

I agree with Strand, if you don’t like it then it’s is an issue.

However you’ve asked if you should be “more tolerant”. Well that depends! He’s stopped drinking 7 days a week, he only goes out 1/2 nights a month so in the grand scheme of things, that isn’t too bad and you say all other aspects of your life are good. Therefore I would suggest you should be more tolerating BUT only you know if you can do that and still be happy.

Sorry I agree with String not Strand.

You have to decide what you want to do.
He has got a drink problem,hes having far too much, plus its impacting on your realtionship. I think its horrible drinking.
Personally I wouldnt have had a relationship with a drinker in the first place. But you are where you are.
I dont think hes an arse, I think hes got an alcohol problem.I'd try talking to him again about it, you never know he might want some help. If he doesnt then I'd be thinking seriously about my options.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. To be fair, he is way better than he used to be. There is no way I would have had kids with him or the relationship would have lasted if he was still acting the way he was (he still drinks but doesn’t get lost at 3am etc). I agree I had quite low standards in my 20s! No matter how positive everything else is and even though it’s not as extreme as before, the drinking still gets on my wick. I see what you’re all saying though. Basically put up with it or leave as I can’t do anything about his drinking. I genuinely do not think it would be worth leaving over. It doesn’t stop the perennial issue itself from being annoying though.

Chloe

You are so very wrong; this is worth leaving over. Why do you think otherwise?. Did you yourself grow up seeing similar from parents?.

Your post like many of its type is mainly about him but what about you here?. What do you want?

What is your definition of an alcoholic?. They do not all sit on park benches; many of them are infact like your H with families and jobs (well for now anyway). Like many people with such long standing issues with drink he is stating that he does not have a problem; there's denial right there.

Your whole life with him has been about him and his drinking problem. Its dominated your relationship and it not surprisingly continues to do so; you've basically now adopted a fatalistic position to it. And yes you certainly had low standards in your 20s and those have really also cost you (and now your children who you have brought into this) dearly. You're affected by his alcoholism in different ways but those are very damaging to you and in turn your children. Your own recovery from his alcoholism will only start when you are away from him completely.

Its not just you who is also being affected by all this either; they do not call alcoholism the family disease for nothing. Would you want your kids to have a relationship like yours?. What do you still get out of this relationship in terms of getting your needs met?. What do you think of him as a husband, women in poor relationships often write versions of the good dad comment (as you have) when they themselves can think of nothing positive to write about their man.
What do you feel about him yourself when you look at him?.

His primary relationship is with drink and that is of many years standing. Its not with you nor these children who are also witness to all this because they pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you both. What do you think life is like for them at home?.

Why do you state you are not an enabler?. You are playing out the usual roles associated with such problem drinkers; i.e enabler, codependent and provoker because you never forget. You continue to dislike his drinking and police his drinking activities. Its a path that your children will learn from as well.

Chloe my mum was an alcoholic and I hate all drinking. I don’t like having it in the house but I obviously can’t make my DH live like that. He drinks 3 or 4 times a week at home. Only 1 or 2 glasses, but i really don’t like it. I could chose to LTB over it, but that would be rather daft of me. But If he did show signs of abusing alcohol I would leave him like a shot.

Are you worried that your H’s drinking will go back to how it was?

So if he is drinking Thursday to Sunday every week is he still pulling his weight around the house and with the kids? And I mean properly doing his share, not just doing the bins once a week.
Personally I wouldn't tolerate this level of drinking, it must be plain bloody boring to witness. But you say you don't want to leave so the only other option is to suck it up, you've spoken to him countless times and he very obviously couldn't give a shit what you think.

Every weekend is ruined by his drinking.
That’s not a life OP, it’s not even a half life! You get a “normal” husband on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday?!? What a shit life for you and your poor kids. What about family stuff? Does he take the kids swimming on a Saturday? Do you all go for Sunday brunch and a walk in the park? If not, you are settling and sacrificing and for what? It is worth leaving over. Absolutely.

He does pull his weight-he works really hard and travels for work quite a bit but he does pull his weight when he’s at home. I work 3 days a week so I tend to do more with the house and children overall but when he’s at home he does help and our kids adore him. He’s very proactive-we do a lot of DIY together and we make a good team at getting things done. We also enjoy spending time together as a family having fun.

I should clarify that he doesn’t ruin every weekend with his drinking. When he has 1-2 drinks it doesn’t really affect him. It’s the 1-2 a month when he has 5-6 drinks that he comes home all vacant.

No one in my family drinks this much so it’s not normal to me.

I don’t think his drinking will get worse. It was pretty bad when we were younger but he has been at the current level for quite a while. That’s why I don’t think he’s an alcoholic, but he definitely has a psychological dependence on drinking/won’t give up even though it causes issues in our relationship.

Chloe,

What is your definition of an alcoholic?. (They do not all sit on park benches nor even drink every day).

A psychological dependence which causes problems in your marriage; well that is life with an alcoholic. Its basically chaos and never stable. You spend your life fire fighting and trying to minimise the next blow up of his. You do realise as well that you cannot fully protect your kids from all this don't you?.

So you do a lot of DIY together; this is really the barest of bare minimums. What fun do you have as a family unit if he is drinking 4 days out of 7 every week?.

Why are your boundaries so low here, why have you allowed yourself to remain within such a frankly awful sounding marriage?. I would also think your kids do not adore him so much as fear him when he is drunk and have learnt to tip toe around him and his associated moods and behaviours as you have. You're also showing them that his behaviour is still acceptable to you on some level.

You get something out of this relationship still so what exactly is it?. Your own codependent needs being met?.

If he is an alcoholic he should not be drinking alcohol at all.

I think it’s very minor in the grand scheme of things. Alcohol is not a problem for him but it is for you, so only you can learn to live with it.

What’s the alternative? Come on all heavy and force him to stop? Moan, shout and threaten to leave? Be nasty and sarcastic? Nag?

He’s made it clear he doesn’t want to stop and he’s not being unreasonable so I would arrange a girls night out and a babysitter when he goes out drinking.

Attila - You're not listening to Chloe. Read the first para in her post 14.36. In other respects, the marriage sounds like a good one to me.

Chloe - I find drunks boring, too. I like the taste of alcohol but never drink enough to get drunk because I feel sick and dizzy long before it makes me merry. I just avoid them, if I can. If your DH is only drinking to excess twice a month, and then just being boring, rather than argumentative or scary, I think this is just something he likes to do with his friends and it's better to let him get on with it and sleep it off rather than stand there with the rolling pin.

In the general scheme of things, it doesn't disrupt your life too much and there's a lot to be thankful for.

We talked about it this morning. He agreed to stick to a max of 2 drinks Thurs-Sun and drink a glass of water between each beer when he goes out with friends. He won’t ever stop drinking altogether so I have to either tolerate it or leave. It’s kind of depressing that drinking is so important to him, but he really is a good partner and dad other than that. Our boys are 100% unaffected by this or I would definitely not stay! My husband does not meet the criteria for being an alcoholic. The only one he meets is: Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol. The only person who has ever had a problem with his drinking is me. And that’s because I don’t drink that much and I don’t particularly like it. I think I need to do more things for myself (so I don’t get so pissed off with him for going out 1-2x a month, which I sometimes find selfish) and I’m going to look into couples counseling-I think we both need to put more effort into meeting each others’ needs. I was feeling really gloomy earlier but I’m starting to feel more positive.

Chloe

Now he is bargaining with himself and you.

BARGAINING – During this phase the alcoholic is determined to prove everyone wrong. They come up with “ideas” and “plans” and “rules”:
“No drinking before 7”
“I will only drink on weekends”
“If you would drink with me this would not be a problem”
“I can have a few glasses of wine but no hard alcohol” and so on and so on.

This is the stage where the fear that they may have to end the relationship takes over and they try to do anything they can to “make it work” and delay the inevitable.

You can state that your children are not affected by this but you cannot state that for sure. You are yourself affected by your H's drinking behaviours and your children do pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken. They see how he is and how you act around him in the day and days after your H's drinking to excess. You try and jolly things along at your own emotional expense.

I would go into counselling alone to start with and Al-anon may be worth calling too. You need a safe and controlled outlet to talk and he won't give you that if you are with him.