Can a failing relationship ever be saved?

[lulupop]

I know from reading the threads here that there's a lot of other people out there in unhappy relationships. I am one myself. Sitting here on a Fri night while DH slumps downstais in front on the TV (nothing he wants to watch on, just flicking around rather than talking), thinking about going to bed because it's too depressing sitting in silence.
There are so many "issues" between us that it's almost impossible to start talking about how things could get better. The main points are 1) I don't fancy him any more as he's put on so much weight and dresses like a slob, and 2)I don't agree with his idea of "childcare" (when it's his turn, he basically sticks DS in front of the TV or takes him out to the park for half an hour before putting Sky Sports on and expecting DS (aged 2.5) to entertain himself. Any discipline is left to me. DH overindulges DS with milk, sweets, etc to keep him quiet while he reads the paper). These issues affect every aspect of our life as I can't help but show my resentment. It's got to the point that I just hardly talk to him as I can't face an argument. We have slept in separate rooms since DD was born (3 months ago), and though DH wants back into our bedroom, the current arrangement suits me fine as I can't think of anything I want to do less than have sex with my own husband. What a sad state of affairs.
We are going to Relate but I don't know how much it can help. If I'm honest about what I want, it's basically for DH to completely change his lifestyle. I wish so much we could get back to how we felt about each other a few years ago, but it seems like another lifetime.
What I want to know is, can a relationship that seems to be dying a slow death like this be saved? Has anyone else got to that stage of feeling the spark has totally gone, but then found their way back again? Or is it just a choice between putting up with each other, or splitting up and consigning our lovely children to a life of being shuttled between the two of us?

Golly Lulu, not an easy answer, how much does he want to save it? What is he prepared to do?
If he lost weight and looked after dd better would it change anything for you?
If not then the answer os probably no, but if you have some hope that you could get it back then it is ok to fight for it and make him participate in it, that is assuming he feels the same way.
Apathy must be a major contributor to relationship break down
Hugs... He does sound like hard work...I'd find it hard to stay attracted to that too, what was it like after your elder child was born? Was he equally awful?

lulupop- I think you are great for being so honest.(i reckon many of us have/are going through similar)
At the end of the day I think it depends on your stamina- things and people can change, but (especially with men) it can take time.
He sounds like he is depressed and could do with sorting himself out, and I totally understand where you are coming from.
Having kids can put an enormous strain on people, and if you have no outside support it is even worse. All I can say is try and ride this particularly nasty wave for a while, let thsdust settle (ie kids grow up!!) and then assess how you really feel.
I just think it is such a high pressured environment, and nobody is at their best, it maybe worth just holding out for a bit longer.
In the interim you need to talk etc... but men aren't very god at that are they?!
sorry if that isn't much help.. but I am thinking of you and know where you are coming from!.

I think the only way it can be saved is if both of you realise what's gone wrong, and that you both want to make the effort to change. In my situation, I spent ages talking to xdp about things that he should try to change about himself but his answer to everything is running away hence why we've broken up now. Not much help but I really hope you can sort something out, and sending you hugs.

Just reread and rethought..
Sounds so familiar.. I think he is finding it very difficult to adapt to having kids (and men can get away with that- women have to just get on with it)
Have you ever left him witn the kids (and you have a break etc?) He could do with a bit more hands on experience to 'wake' him up to the reality of being a dad.
I am not being unkind here- but I do think it takes some men longer than others to "get" it re kids.. (mine is one)...
If you think it is worth it (remember what you had?) than stick with it- we aren't all natural parents.. and we all need help sometimes.

lulupop I believe the short answer is yes but I also believe it does not happen often.

I went to relate many years ago. I was intrigued that you asked the very question I asked the counsellor. Basically, our relationship problems are x,y,and z. Is there any hope? (even in theory?!) The counsellor refused to answer the question!

Sadly we have since divorced but I don't think that is inevitable. In fact looking back (with full strength rose tinted specs I grant you) I don't even think it was necessary or inevitable for us.

I agree with what the others said . He must want to improve things too.

Remember life with a toddler and a newborn can be VERY difficult. Some men ( my own dh) react to stress/fatigue by just shutting down. My own dh is a bit like this. he slumps in front of the TV most nights while I am running round doing chores and often feel very resentful.

At worst times I have seriously considered "running the show" on my own.
As our kids get older it gets a bit easier.
Good luck.

If it does not work out at least you know you tried.

We had a really hard time when our twins were born, went on for a couple of years and things did gradually improve, esp when we moved to a place we really liked and I made some friends...

so glad now that we didn't break up. twins are seven, dd four. He's great with them, like a different person. I don't know why or how he changed but I know he finds older kids easier to relate to and get involved with than babies (like many men).

I wonder with your situation whether he's shellshocked at becoming a dad again and has just gone into himself (and feels crap about himself - surely he knows he's letting himself go & not participating in family life, how can he not know this? Maybe he's ashamed but doesn't have the motivation to change). Early days with baby put such a massive strain on everyone but someone (you!) has to keep it all together. So unfair!

Hope you can ride this out (if you think you want to) & that things get better...

Well, this morning's not got off to a very good start. I was up at 6am as usual, while DH slept in till 9.45. Even though he is currently sleeping next door to DS, he seems unable to wake up when DS is shouting to be let out of his room (stairgate across door) in the morning. Funny how I can hear it from downstairs, rouse myself out of sleep, and get him out. By the time DH appeared I had tidies up all downstairs, fed both children and was feeling annoyed I couldn't get on with my jobs in town till DH got up. First thing he said when he did come down was "What's wrong with you? Why have you got that expression on your face". Said I didn't want to talk in front of children. Then asked him why he was being so hostile, and his reply was that he was sick of my negativity and resentment, and if I didn't change my attitude there'd be "no point even going to Relate as I've had enough".
God I just don't know what to do. If I point out to him what the things that annoy me are, he just denies that things are like that at all, so we can't move on at all. The thought of a weekend like this makes me feel like being sick. Thinking of going to my parents' for a few days, but don't really want them to know the reason why.

oh big hugs lulapop - don't really have any advice but lots of empathy.

DH and I went to relate a few years ago and it really helped us, but that was a totally situation (before we married or had kids in fact).

Just wanted you to know that I'm sending lots of positive thoughts your way and I hope the weekend gets better xxx

sorry lulupop would help if I got your name right

Think it is a good idea to get away without him - just tell your folks it's a little break for the kids.
Perhaps it will give him some space to think about things too..
why don't you leave a letter outlining all your worries/complaints and let him mull over it while you are away?

My relationship was like yours (with other "worse bits" 3 yrs ago. I learnt to stop having any expectation as to what DH should do. When i decided to let everything to do with childcare and running the home become my responsibility it no longer bothered me that dh was not getting out of bed until 10 when i had been up since 5! My dh i think found it hard to cope when mine were 3 and 3months, so instead of dealing with it and helping me he avoided it. I would use my parents for a lot of the childcare situations where most people would ask their DH's. We had some very bad times and a lot of the time i was being grumpy with him when he hadnt even done anything, i was just waiting to accuse him of something. As i was grumpy with him he was automatically grumpy with me. On the positive side my two are now 6.5 and 3.5 and me and DH have got a FANTASTIC relationship - better than it ever was pre-kids. DH has gained confidence in childcare and does loads with them. I think men find it easier to entertain older children, they do not have the maternal instinct for babies/toddlers. Stick with things, it does take time (years) but if you hang in there and try and understand Dh (even when he appears selfish) and try to just weather the storm when you feel you are doing everthing yourself- GOOD LUCK!

I dont know where the came from it was supposed to be a close of bracket!!!!

Thanks for the advice - what some of you have said about men finding older children easier does ring true, although I'd find it easier to deal with if he;d at least admit to that, rather than telling me all the time what a great father he is and that he does loads with them when he doesn't!
I wrote him a letter yesterday outlining my "issues", to which his response was "£50% of that was alright and the rest was a load of cr*p" so I suppose some of it is getting through.
Oh well today the sun's shining and he's out all morning so not all bad

Glad you're feeling a little more positive today Lulupop. The letter sounds like a good move. Hope you have a good day xx

lulupop - I have been thinking about this a lot and wondering if I should respond. In the end I decided I will. I just wanted to add in the children's perspective - I am sure you are keenly aware of it but it sounds a bit like your dh needs a kick up the arse tbh. Poor relationships -my which I mean the whole set of relationships that make up a family - between parents and between them and their children - have a long-term effect on children. Every day, we are providing kids with a model of how to love, to respect, to care, to compromise, to resolve conflict. And from my own experience as a child and of the impact on my later adult life you never really get over being set a poor example. They don't call it the formative years for nothing. If couples without children want to let apathy spoil their relationships then fine. But once we are parents I believe we have a responsibility to try a bit harder. (before I get pounced on, I'm not advocating staying in unhappy marriages, I'm just saying we need to do our best - and sometimes that might just be handling a spilt as well as possible iyswim).

I guess what I'm saying is that yes, relationships can recover and that it is really really worth fighting for.

I hope this kind of makes a bit of sense. Good luck

Lulupop, hope you don?t mind me offering my opinion, you may not like it.
I think it cuts both ways, I do think your DH has a lot of growing up to do but equally things might be easier if you could lighten up with him. I think you are caught in a vicious cycle of being annoyed with him and annoying him in return ? no-one is a winner in this situation.

Men don't know instinctively what to do with kids and I know I watched in horror as my DP did everything wrong and had no qualms in telling him so, he quickly gave up trying and I became resentful that I had to do everything. As the kids got bigger (i.e. in his eyes, more fun and easier not to break) I learned that if I left him to it, he'll do a good job. Maybe not the same neat job I'd do, but the important thing is that the children were spending time with their father. I also had the battle of persuading him that watching TV does not count as quality time, but have taken to suggesting that dp does a task and ds can help - i.e. wash the car, gardening, go to the shops etc. It?s an uphill struggle, but I?m no longer so resentful of him all the time. Regarding his appearance, try saying nicely that you're worried for his health and you'd like him around while the children grow up etc, guilt him into getting fit.

I think you both need to change, not just your dh. Try putting on a happy smile, even when you don't feel it, and saying nice things. You might be surprised by his response. Keep making yourself smile and pretend to be happy and it won't be long before you actually feel it. Someone else here explained this much approach much better a while ago (custardo?).

he's willing to go to relate, there are so many people here who can't get their partners to commit to that first step. He must want you two to stay together to go to counselling. I know with two small children it's hard, but think of the benefits if it works out.

Lulupop - My dh and I are similar. I am overweight, and dh respects me less for that. I can understand where he (and you) are coming from, but it is bound to cause some friction between a couple. Dh and I find that when we manage to have some time to ourselves, we get on fine, and it is like old times. We both acknowledge that having a demanding child in tow 24/7 is bound to make a relationship appear bad. We constantly niggle at each other, and it seems like WE are not getting on, but the truth is that our child is taking so much from us that we have no time for each other.

You say that you have a 3 month old baby. That is surely something to consider. Also, try not to face your dh immediately with a closed expression when he comes downstairs. It is easy for a simple facial expression to lead to a horrible argument. I have been where you are at the moment, and even considered leaving dh. However, I strongly believe that we will be fine if we make it through ds' hardest years.

Relate is a good start to sorting things out. I also think that sleeping in the same bed makes a positive statement to him, in that you do not want to be seperated physically from him. Maybe you do, but you could try it and see. That first step could help?

Another thing I have thought of...

I read on here once about tiny positive things affecting men more than they would women. For example, making him a cup of tea makes him feel cared for. That in turn makes him more prepared to do something for you. It seems to work when I try it for dh. Just a thought.

Hi, hope you dont mind me butting in too... I totally agree with chinchilla, cos i can be so grumpy, on the rare occassion i am nice, he actually thanks me for being nice and is a lot happier and more willing to help in return. Also, could you not ask him to get up some mornings with kids so you can have lie in like he does?

Your comments plus our (rather intense) session at Relate this week have really made me think about things. Of course I have thought about it from our kids' perspective - tbh at times that's the only reason I've stayed. There's no way I want our children growing up thinking parents bickering and sniping is a "normal" relationship. DH is desperate for some signs of affection, which I accept I have more or less totally channelled into the children. I have decided to ask him back into the bedroom this weekend, even though I'll then end up with even less sleep.
We have a lot of good stuff to fight for and I think we can do it. It's just trying to ignore the day to day irritations and focus on the bigger picture that's hard sometimes

Lulupop - that's a brilliant and brave thing to do. This way you'll be giving it the best shot you can. Of course it cuts both ways, but your DH will hopefully respond to your efforts with efforts of his own. I think the same motto for children should be applyied to adults - pick your battles.
Best of luck, I hope it works out - please let us know how you get on.

Lulupop, my dp doesnt do mornings at the weekends, although he springs out of bed at 5/6am for work through the week and it really used to get on my nerves and the fact that I was up tiding and sorting out the kids while he was in bed...ohhhhh did my my head in.
So now every six weeks or so i spring it on him that im going out(usually a bootsale) on a Sunday morning and then he has no choice to get up and do the things I would usually be doing. It gives me a break from the kids and gives him time with the kids.
He also lets the dds have whatever they like when im not around, but im unable to change that and as long as they have had breakfast/lunch I let that go, as they know Mummys a different kettle of fish, therefore being left with Daddy is a treat.
You must be tired with 2 little ones especially if its all left to you.
Regarding his weight, maybe suggest energising outings at the weekend and he will realise hes not as fit as he used to be and it might get him thinking he needs to do something about it?
Sounds like you are willing to try which is a good thing. Good Luck!

you have my sympathies. Yesterday, feeling ill with a cold and other stuff i spent ages cleaning,ironing and other essential jobs that i could put off no longer and dp said that i was using him as a childminder while i did housework! like i was enjoying myself
Having a bad time too so i know how you feel

Doziduck...don't you enjoy housework then??? Personally, I like nothing better than polishing and dusting! Blooming cheek of your dp.

Having just invited my dp to move back in after banishing him from our home for the last 4.5 months, I am going through a lot of similar stuff lulupop. We started counselling about 8 weeks ago - it was one of the things that persuaded me to give it another try. Dp has made loads of effort to be a better partner and father, including cutting down his drinking drastically.

So I "should" be pleased, and I feel like I should feel really happy, yet instead I am consumed with anxiety, and am complaining about every little thing that annoys me. I suspect that if we are to survive with any quality of relationship I am going to have to let go a hell of a lot more of trying to control things in our relationship.

I think it is really hard to change in a relationship - I have so many habitual responses to things dp does, and even when I know my response is not helpful (like moaning, criticising, picking a fight), I still find myself doing it. It's like I'm constantly trying to be "right", and constantly crying out for attention. When dp lived elsewhere things eventually got much better between us, even romantic. But the minute he moved back in we returned to bickering mode. Why???? I don't really understand - is it all that anger and resentment from the past? I thought that was dealt with. Or is it just fear that I'll look a fool for taking him back if my newly raised hopes get dashed, so I am attacking him as if to say - don't you dare let me down? If you kick someone out you do get to control a lot more, and I think that it is hard to then go back to the mundane reality of daily living together.

All I think I can manage at the moment is to make a lot more effort to praise the good bits, at least to counterbalance the negative stuff I'm doling out. And also to take more responsibility for my own decisions, so if I end up doing chores at 1am that is my problem, as I never even asked dp to help. Fundamentally I think I am just scared that I won't ever get the relationship I hope for with dp - and that is stopping me from appreciating what I DO have.

I wish you luck, and energy! I shall also be reading your thread to see what I can learn as I've already seen some thought provoking responses which are helpful.