Angry - need advice for a calm conversation

[LadyRoughDiamond]

Sorry if this is a bit long, it's hard to get everything down but I'm v frustrated and need to let it all out!
I became a SAHM when DS2 was born and soon after, we left London for the countryside. My DH can work pretty much anywhere (think in-demand profession) and as my career was v London-centric, the long-term plan was for me to retrain when the children were old enough. Fast-forward three years and we've settled into our new homeand DH is settled into his new career - albeit a very stressful one with long hours. DS1 is 7 and DS2 is 3 and so ready for nursery etc. I've just been accepted onto the training course I wanted (1 year) and am all set to go back to work in Sept.
The issue is, first of all DS stared saying how difficult it would be with me going back to work. I felt bloody guilty but stuck with it, pointing out that it would be worth it in the long term. Then, as I passed the necessary assessments and interview, he seemed very subdued and unenthusiastic - barely a congratulations. I need to go to a few inductions etc over the next few months and he's not happy about having to look after DS2 on the days that these aren't covered by nursery (DS2 to go f/time in Sept). Finally, last night, he started to moan about money. I'll be paid a very small training salary but this is just enough to cover wrap around care for DS1 and nursery for DS2. He now wants me to find money for a cleaner because this will help cover what I'm not doing. I suggested he look after DS2 on his day off (he works 4 days p/wk) to save me some money but apparently he needs that day to unwind and exercise. Basically, the message I'm getting is 'go back to work, but don't let it affect me'.
I appreciate it's going to be a change for everyone, but financially we're pretty fortunate. He has a v good salary but he is a bit tight and "gives" me monthly money for food, petrol, the boys etc. I have no idea what he does with his disposable income - it's substantial but he's not very good with money. That needs addressing - joint account is needed, I know.
I'm not backing down. I need financial independence and a life outside the home. I've given my family everything over the last few years and want something for myself. SO, I'm going to speak to him about all of this tonight. Can anyone give me some advice, things to raise, ways to say how I'm feeling without it descending into a row? He has a tendency to feel "picked on" and play the victim if I criticise.

My exDH was very keen for me to give up work when we had DCs. He worked shifts and quite frankly it was the straightforward thing to do. But when they went to school he wanted me to go back to work P/T to share the financial load. Which I did. But somehow that meant he still did nothing around the home other than what he wanted to do. I worked outside the home P/T and put all my earnings into the family pot and still did all the childcare, housework etc.

When I was offered a chance to do a degree and retrain, he threw so many tantrums. My DM was amazingly supportive and I qualified. But ExH was so hurt by it all he decided he needed a mistress to cope.

I suspect my first marriage was always destined to fail because my ExH was an arse, but I’ve never regretted doing my degree and building a career. I have DDs and feel I have been a good role model and both now have great careers and are financially independent.

He sounds like a complete arse. I have no idea how to have a calm conversation because I’d be kicking him out and the conversation would be about the minimum requirements of a husband and father - access to money, childcare costs are family costs, ditto cleaner costs, there are two equal adults in the relationship who pull their weight at work and home. Or fuck the fuck off. For gods sake you are NOT fortunate financially, you have no income, no savings, no access to money, and
Children you pay to look after! He is fortunate financially , he has an unpaid skivvy at home who looks after the children whether he’s at work or not and can only spend what he’s approved.

Why can’t he do some of the housework? He lives in the house too. Maybe you should explain that if he carries on like this and you split, he’ll have to clean his own house and split all the money/assets 50/50 plus do equal shares of childcare.

How did it go! X

You’ve never been equal since you became a mother.

Gazelda in the first post put it well. No accusations just statements of fact and asking for plans for the future.

He has given up nothing if himself to be a father. With or without a family he’s been able to focus on his career. You’ve not just given up your career and goals for years but you’ve scrupered your future earnings going forwards too.

I was going to say exactly the same as a pp - why are you trying to negotiate with him. You have every right to be steaming angry with the selfish, blinkered fucker! Pay for a cleaner? I've literally heard it all now. He earns a very good salary and has done for several years (and you don't know what happens to that money - also totally unacceptable in a marriage btw) but you are going to be paying for childcare and now he reckons a cleaner out of your tiny salary? What a cock. Have the row and tell him it's non-negotiable.

Hi op. I'm in the same boat. I get similar monthly money to pay for everything whilst he earns a good salary. He spends it on whatever he wants yet always has a reason when it's something that I want. It's demeaning to ask for money when you're an adult and should have equal say and control of the finances.

It's controlling and abusive and goes hand in hand in my case with other stuff. We're splitting up now and I should have done it years ago.

This is another reason why I would never agree to SAH, tbh. I've seen too many iterations of husbands that get awfully comfy feeling entitled to do nothing but earn who demand that if you then go back to work you still have to do everything at home you did before. I know you can't change the past OP - but please do stand up 100% for your right to return to work and for an equitable, shared household arrangement.

You've had some great advice so far, mine to add to it would be to have a phrase ready to repeat if he tries (which he will) to derail the conversation into your sins/your tone/how hard done by he is. I would suggest something along the lines of "As we agreed, I am going back to work and that means you need to step up at home. What are you going to do to make that happen?" Don't let him make the discussion about anything other than that point.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.inkysmudge.com.au/eSimulation/resources/BROKEN_RECORD_TECHNIQUE.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiU5-zmhpbZAhXlIsAKHZFRCPQQwaICCDwwDA&usg=AOvVaw0Cvov_N2qmStsW4XR0gtUG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.inkysmudge.com.au/eSimulation/resources/BROKEN_RECORD_TECHNIQUE.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiU5-zmhpbZAhXlIsAKHZFRCPQQwaICCDwwDA&usg=AOvVaw0Cvov_N2qmStsW4XR0gtUG

Do you actually even still want him after all of this? It’s not very attractive character traits to be honest. Maybe you should give him a hard shock and tell him that his current attitude and behaviour is a massive turn off and you’re currently reconsidering your future and he will be paying for the bloody cleaner. Selfish arsehole

There are two explanations about Lady's OH. Either he's lazy/entitled from getting into bad habits and needs a wake up call. If so, Lady will talk to him, he'll listen, be reasonable, maybe even apologise, and they'll be able to come to mutually agreeable terms. If OH is abusive/wishes to continue his lordship at all costs, Lady will quickly find out. He'll not want to engage in conversation, he'll close down debate and pursue an agenda of belittling and bullying to get his way. But Lady should give him a chance to prove himself.

He gets a whole day to himself, every week?
I can't get over that!
When do you get a day to yourself?
Why doesn't he clean on that day? it's good exercise lazy fucker

Ladies, thank you for your advice AND for your anger. It's really helped me stay on track. We talked last night and he's now sorting a joint account. This will enable me to monitor where the money's going more closely and is a fairer way of doing things.
He's also dealing with the cleaner issue or doing his fair share - either way, I've made it clear that it's his responsibility to either pitch in or hire someone.
With regards to childcare, we'll go for full time and if we decide, a month or so in, that it's just too expensive, he'll have DS2 one day a week. I showed him the figures and he just couldn't argue with them.
We're on the right track but I do think I need to stay a step ahead here and not relax too much in case he slips back into his selfish ways. Is this a good way to live? I don't know, but I'm not doing anything drastic until the children are older and I'm established in a career. I'm veering towards selfish twat rather than controlling bastard at the moment, but won't be giving an inch.
Thank you, everyone. You're a terrifying nest of vipers, but you're brilliant.

Hi Lady,

I'm glad the conversation went well and he is now sorting a joint account as well as a cleaner if he really wants one.

I don't think its an ideal way to live, staying one step ahead of your lazy husband but time will tell. I wouldn't like it but you know your marriage and how much you can take.

x

I think it sounds good. He's agreed to be fair which I know my dh won't. He just gives me excuses and turns against me. Just make sure you keep him to it and you don't slip back into taking all the burdens.

Lady

What was his response like?. Was he surprised, angry, bemused even?.

Has he sorted out the joint account yet?. Do you now know where all the money goes?.

Words are cheap, I would be looking for proper action from him re actually establishing the joint account and potentially hiring a cleaner. Do not let him stall you on any of this.

He still has it pretty easy going doesn't he?. And no its not a good way to live.

There is very much a fine line between selfish twat and controlling bastard. Be very careful going forward and maintain and reaffirm your boundaries re him particularly if you do stay with him.

I would also consider carefully what your children are learning about relationships here, what do you want to teach them about relationships?.

Sounds good. I guess we can all get set in our Ways. Hopefully this is a massive wake up call for him

I need financial independence and a life outside the home. I've given my family everything over the last few years and want something for myself

^^This

Although I'm wondering how he will take the 'financial I part.

Then talk briefly about the cleaner and why that's needed and how it will work.

You need to be short, and concise. He's not in listening and understanding mode, and will simply switch off if you aim for a long explanation.Thats the standard trick of someone who doesn't want to 'hear' you; he's already made it clear it's not about what you want. & you already know he moves into 'Im being picked on' mode. Don't try to justify yourself to him - you don't need to.

Essentially you have a man who wants you at home, not working, so you facilitate family life and everyone's needs. So you sacrifice your career and don't matter..your DCs grow up and make their own lives, then - who, and where are you?

Broken record technique - don't let too many strands and diversions into your conversation about this with him. Sadly I think even if you do get what you want, it's not going to be good for your relationship as he isn't seeing you as an equal. & resentment will creep in.

Good luck.

I've just seen conversation went well (I'm on small phone screen). Good. Onwards & upwards

Well done Lady - onwards and upwards!

Nice one Lady. My advice is make a life for yourself and if he is a pleasurable part of that and doing his share, all well and good. . Too many (including me) just go along with the flow to not cause hassle and friction and then end up putting themselves in a poor position if stuff goes to pot..

Great start Lady. Hope it continues as you hope. But stick to your guns and don’t allow him to pull you away from your goals.

This will be all worth it. You are showing some great examples to your DCs and developing your career will be so healthy for all concerned in years to come.

Sounds good, OP, and he probably is just a selfish twat. But I find it a shame that he doesn't want to be with his child on his day off.

Glad you’ve stood up to him, what screamed out to me was him saying he wasn’t willing to look after his own child on his day off!! What the actual fuck?! That’s not normal!! If my husband said that I’d go mental. Kids are a joint responsibility, not “woman’s work”. He sounds so so selfish, stay one step ahead.