When does being considerate of the other person become walking on eggshells?

[Rutabega]

Because a comment made this weekend has made me question it.

My partner has long term physical issues which cause daily pain. Some days are good, some not. I've never suffered any kind of serious pain so I don't know first-hand how it feels. But I am aware of It, and if I see any signs of discomfort I will do what I can to alleviate It, certainly I don't ignore it.

Partner also has a considerable mental load, possibly/ probably depression. Has serious insomnia, sometimes going for days without sleeping or sleeping but having horrific nightmares. Just at a low ebb most of the time. Doesn't seem interested on me sexually but I'm not pushing that with everything else that's going on, as I don't think partner needs any pressure. We are best friends, and I always feel partner has my back. Previously before partners current problems were as bad, everything in our relationship was great.

Anyway, on Fri we went to the local pub for a few drinks with some of my friends. Partner had agreed this in advance but I don't think wanted to be there. I haven't seen some of the people there for ages, hence they wanted to talk to me, but I was conscious this left partner out, so made an effort to turn the conversation to something partner could join in with. Which worked ok. Later on, lots of people were quite drunk (we are not big drinkers and I was driving) offering drinks; being a bit loud and rowdy, emcouraging partber to have a few drinks and loosen up etc, a bit irritating maybe but it was all good natured. Partner pulled a face and said 'I'm going home didn't expect me to leave, but we were 3 miles from home so I wasn't going to say walk! So we ended up leaving a bit abruptly.

This morning when dog walking I bumped into one of the (more sober) friends who was there. Chatting about the night and she said did I often have to keep the peace with Partner/ keep partner happy? I said that I just try to be considerate, as I know partner would be of me. But the fact she mentioned it is making me wonder is this right? am I doing something wrong?

I don't feel I walk on eggshells to pacify partner. But I do try to help on situations when I know they're not happy. Now I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do.

So as I understand your update, he's not making any attempt to address his MH problems?

I suffer chronic pain, and the usual correlations between that, depression and/or anxiety are significant and well documented. Some anti-depressants can help with pain management as well as MH.

I live with pain every day and always will. I try really hard not to be a twat to others because of it. That's not on. Using your own difficulties to manipulate others is despicable behaviour.

I am surprised he's drinking on top of painkillers - it's not advised and certainly won't help with insomnia. He's also quit therapy. Therapy is hard, mine was. He needs to find a different therapist and try again.

It sounds as if he's settled into a cycle of behaviour that suits him and to hell with your needs. Whether you continue to allow this is in your hands.

I don't know that he feels therapy will help. He has had suicidal thoughts almost every day of his adult life. He reasons that as he hasn't made an attempt yet he probably won't and that others are more in need of help than him. He wouldn't take anti depressants as he thinks they are basically placebos.

He doesn't really drink ever, probably once a month he'll have 1 beer, he's not a big drinker. Last night he had I think 3 pints. So over the limit for driving but not much for a tall, broad man.

I don't know how to deal with it if I'm honest. I am so conscious of being told I'm selfish. I've realised he's actually said that to me before too, so it's been said in several relationships. I don't know that I am. To an extent I put myself first but if I don't no one else will, isn't that human nature, self preservation etc?

Why are you so convinced that you are selfish? This man and other men have told you that?

Can you give some examples of your behaviour? I personally think that it's quite healthy at times to put your own needs first in a relationship... not all the time obviously, but tiptoeing round some grumpy arse is definitely not healthy.

He doesn’t think either of the things that have an evidence base behind them will help?

He has called you selfish?

I think the answer to your original question is very clear now.

Yes, you are walking on eggshells. He is emotionally abusive.

I am in agreement with Offred. He is doing nothing to help himself because he is contolling you and your family. He is enjoying a huge amount of power over you all.

Him calling you 'selfish' (when you do everything financially, practically and emotionally!) and having headaches, sulking etc is what's known as 'Gaslighting'.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/toxic-relationships/201801/how-know-if-youre-victim-gaslighting

You may also find this interesting:

www.whatiscodependency.com/passive-aggressive-codependent-partner/

Not all abuse is violent or loud. You and your children do not have to live like this.

If I was out with a group of people who were trying to get me to drink more than I wanted, and telling me to "loosen up" id leave as well.But would be happy for you to stay as long as you like. Your friends were rude. And I probably wouldnt want to socialise with people who felt they get have a say in how much me or partner drink

He has said to me previously that I've behaved selfishly on occasion (we disagreed in the past about me not staying at his flat, I don't because I find my house more comfortable) However previous partners and indeed friends have said this too. So if everyone tells me I am, I must be, right?

I was previously (many years ago) involved with a married man. Friends at the time said I was selfish for getting involved, I should have put his family before what I wanted. Equally I was told I was selfish by friends for asking them to help me set my house up for a party. I should add neither set of friends were the ones I was with on Fri.

Not to defend those friends but they were quite merry, and offering drinks. They weren't forcing us to down pints but they were jollying us along to have a drink, dance etc but he wasn't really prepared to join In, or even just politely refuse, which I did. Well he refused but he looked unhappy about being there.

As to my Partner, it's not fair to say I do everything. Well I do for myself as in I earn my own money etc but so does he, in fact he earns more than me and we don't live together so I'm not responsible for him.

I think we are co dependent though which is not terribly healthy, I appreciate that.

To me walking on eggshells is when you do or say (or don't do or say) something because you fear the reaction of the other person. And it sounds to me as if this is your situation.

I also think you may want to really think about whether or not you are truly selfish or if you just seem to pick people to be in your life who expect you to put them first. If you are a 'caretaker' type person it's very easy to base your friendships/relationships on 'taking care' of others. And people who tend to take advantage will gravitate to someone who 'needs to be needed'. The problem is that eventually caretakers get tired of this, realize they're taking advantage, and will start NOT taking care of them and then they'll accuse you of being selfish.

I'm posting as someone who has similar issues.
When you are in pain, socialising is hard work. Not physically; but mentally because we are always wondering if people are going to like us/accept us etc etc. And standing and sometimes sitting for a while; can make you tired.
You sound like you support your partner well. However you could have, dropped her back and gone back to the pub.
I would be wary of this lady. She sounds like she is interested in you and i would be careful of sharing concerns with her.

Exactly what AcrossthePond said.

We don't know you, so don't know whether you are selfish or not. The examples you give about staying at his flat or asking for help sound like perfectly normal ways to behave to me, and the married man affair sounds like a lack of judgment on your (younger) part. I don't defend that at all, but I'm surprised that your friends thought they had the right to criticise you that strongly... in fact, I wonder what your "boundaries" and self-esteem are like if you have now convinced yourself that you are selfish for some pretty normal behaviour.

Are you now always the "selfish" one and he is always the "reasonable" one?

Not healthy, op. Not healthy.

Thanks for your replies. Food for thought.

I'm an only, so have been told I was spoilt/ selfish most of my life. Thinking back I remember a huge row with friends at uni because I had a phone in my room and they didn't, and I was selfish for not offering 1 friend whose boyfriend was on a placement tear my phone to call him (she used to use a payphone in halls, this being before the mobile phone era). I've had the you're selfish for not sharing thing for years. Ever since I can remember. Because stuff like this has always been said by a group, not just one person, I've always thought I was in the wrong. But now I'm thinking actually they were being the arses, not me. I am quite sensitive to criticism and self critical. I used to believe that I was always right, I always had a lot pf self belief when younger but as I grew up it started to ebb away... Maybe I need to be kinder to myself.

I'm an only too. In counselling I learned to set boundaries as I was being excessively caring/giving and was sad that it wasn't reciprocated.

There's a diffence between being selfish and being self caring.
You sound like you sacrifice far too much of your self worth and time to people who aren't deserving of it.

Emotional Vampires will bleed you dry if you let them. They will take and take and take, then call you selfish if you aren't immediately available to meet their needs.

I actually disagree with a lot of these responses.

I think you are doing the complete right thing by being considerate of your partner if you've asked him to come, considering his ill health. If you want a night without having to worry about him then you just don't bring him. It doesn't sound like he'd mind you going and socialising without him. If he does then that's another issue...

But I think it's simple, be considerate of his feelings in his company and let loose in your own time as you deserve it.

but I felt he would be unhappy if I didn't go with him
This means you are walking on eggshells.

I think Weezol has it spot on with the last paragraph.
Don't sacrifice yourself for someone else's happiness.
You also say you many be in a co-dependent relationship.
Please look into this.
They are not healthy.

If you were the driver, he needed to ask if you were ok to leave earlier, not march out and expect you to follow.

Sounds like it would have been better if you'd gone out alone, so you could catch up properly with your friends.

Reading through, I agree with the 'you sound like a carer not a partner' comment. that must be a tricky boundary to navigate but try to respect his autonomy.

His ideas about therapy and anti-depressants are utter bollocks and are excuses, not reasons.

Selfishness is an action not a state of being. Well it's helpful to look at it that way anyway. People can be very good at saying no and keeping their own plans on course, without being thought of as rude or selfish - rather as organised, competent, decisive, reliable. People who you know will get things done and maintain their integrity.

It sounds as though you don't know where those normal boundaries between helpful and putting yourself out, respecting others' autonomy and trying to think for them, lie. You're trying a bit too hard to be nice, then, when one thing is badly received, thinking you've got everything wrong.

p.s. the question in that particular scenario seems to be, why didn't he say he'd rather stay at home? Would he next time, if feeling the same, now this has reminded him what the group is like?

Because if he's only going out of a sense of obligation to you, you're in double trouble and both need to readjust your ideas of what helps and makes each other happy.

Whatever, this sounds an awful way to live. You sound like you feel guilty for going out and enjoying yourself, and he sounds like he's very miserable a lot of the time. He's not interested in you sexually and doesn't want you out partying on your own, but just comes and puts a dampener on everything. It undoubtedly is depression but he won't seek treatment (therapy not ongoing and won't take anti-d's).

My partner is very unwell and in pain every day. I don't treat him with kid gloves, or modify my behaviour that much because he wants me to be happy and live a nice life too, he does not have mental health issues though, it's physical which I get is different. I do try to be considerate of his pain and in this situation, might go home. But my partner would be happy and lovely with my friends until he could leave, or just wouldn't come at all, he wouldn't come, have a face on, then ask to go home early.

I don't know, I guess you feel guilty about his situation but I couldn't live with someone this miserable, also given he's not treated and feels suicidal every day, this is for life. I wouldn't personally want to live like this, pussy-footing around (which I think you are doing) all in case something terrible happens. Would a counsellor help you disentangle all of this? You sound quite trapped by his illness, as he is too of course.