Ovebearing father in law - what to do?

[vivobook]

Hi ladies,

I am here to ask you for some opinion and well needed advice. I will cut to the chase with some additional details:
My fiancé (30) and I (mid twenties) have been together for over an year and a half and are in a happy, loving relationship. We are best friends and truly a team.
His parents own a tech company and live between the US and Asia, due to their hectic lifestyle he sees them once a year. I know that he didn't have an easy, conventional childhood - his parents immigrated to North America when he was very young, they tried to build a life while studying for their MBAs and progressing with their careers; he was strictly disciplined by his overly ambitious father, his mother was very careless (would forget to pick him up from school, leave him alone in the house without food at night, etc). Needless to say, growing up he had a volatile relationship with his dad but as he got older and very successful in his professional career things got better between them. To this day his dad has the need to micromanage him, check if he is at home, give him nagging advice and freak out if he doesn't hear back from him in less than 30 minutes.
My partner truly is the kindest, most companionate man that I know and therefore I wanted to give his family the benefit of the doubt.
I met them for the first time this Christmas (we went to visit them in America) but have been talking to his dad since the summer (he would text and ask how we are doing every day, which at first I found very sweet).
Upon meeting them things started looking a bit different. His mum is a very fun, witty lady who could be an amazing friend, however lacks motherly/nurturing qualities. His dad, although a very caring man, lacks social tact, believes he is always right and is incredibly stubborn. I was patient with all their quirks and found them hilarious, however I could see my partner acting strangely. He was holding back and going above and beyond to please them. On the second day of our trip he admitted to me that he doesn't feel like himself and although he loves them a lot, he much prefers being with my family as he feels accepted and not pressured to say or do certain things. I bit my tongue and told him its okay, they are his family, we see them once a year. As our holiday progressed I could see his dad nagging him, lecturing him about his work (mind you, he has lived on his own since he was 15 and is a director at a massive financial company) and how it is dangerous to travel (even within Europe) and how its best if we just stay at home and go to work.
When it was time for us to leave, I could see the relief on my fiancé's face. I just bit my tongue the whole time not wanting to offend anyone but wish desperately to tell his father to back off as he is making him feel anxious an uneasy.
I am lucky to have a family that loves me, gives me freedom, are fun to be around and would never pressure me, hence this dynamic was all new to me. Once we returned back to the UK, his dad would continuously message both of us every day - checking if we are home, checking if we are going to sleep, freaking out if neither of us responds promptly. I am sure it comes from a good place but it is just too much - more so for my partner than for me. However last night, after his father texted me about reading that the flu is awful this year and how I should make sure his son washes his hands more, I was just out of patience.

My fiancé knows his dad well and is certain telling him to tone it down would make things worse and as he is very sensitive, would offend him deeply. I, on the other hand, don't want to interfere but am bothered to see my significant other battered by his father over everything and anything.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Is there anything we could do?

Thanks ladies and sorry for the long rant!

Honestly? I would think very, very carefully before you agree to join this family for life.

Stop replying to the messages for a start. Unplug housephone and ignore alerts on your mobile.
As the MN phrase goes - phone contact is an invitation to conversation, not a summons. It's your choice if you reply.
What specifically does him 'freaking out' mean?

I would also have a discussion with your dp. Tell him you could see the change in him when his parents were around and see what he wants. Does he want to contact them less? Not see them? Work out the answer to that then plan together to make it happen.

Thanks ladies!

HandbagCrazy, "Freaking out" means simply that the father would message us both multiple times and if he doesn't hear from us, he is known to email or text our friends. I have never seen anything like this before. The mum on the other hand is super relaxed, might phone once a month (if that) or would send an email with a funny meme.

My fiancé is fully aware of the change, he is the one who acknowledges it. I believe he would love to limit the communication to father (ie. once a week) and have more breathing space but is too nice of a guy to do anything due to fearing of hurting his parent.

I would think long and hard about marrying into such a dysfunctional and abusive family of origin.

Where are your own boundaries here with regards to his parents; they seem to be far too low here and you clearly have not come across people like his parents before now. You do not have to respond to his dad's incessant messages. His parents quirks are infact anything other than hilarious as well, your fiancé is mired in his own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) re his parents which are but three of many damaging legacies abusive parents like his leave their now adult offspring. Your fiancé may well be a good man but his parents are not good people to be at all around and his inertia re his parents will continue to hurt him as well as you.

You would not have tolerated this from a friend, his parents are no different. His parents have tried to control your fiancé from an early age and now they want to control you as well (along with any children you go onto have by your fiance). A controlling father and an emotionally neglectful mother was his lot as parents and still is. These people have not changed and will not change.

How does your fiancé feel about his parents these days; what sort of a relationship does he want with them if any going forward?. He is key here. Does he indeed want to contact them less?.

And if he did hurt his dad's feelings? What's the worst that could happen?
Would your dp consider some counselling to understand why he, a grown, successful person puts up with his father's controlling behaviour? Why asking him to tone it down would cause a problem?

vivobook

re your comment:-
"I believe he would love to limit the communication to father (ie. once a week) and have more breathing space but is too nice of a guy to do anything due to fearing of hurting his parent".

Your fiancé really does need to address his fear, obligation and guilt re his controlling and neglectful parents with a therapist because if he does not this will keep coming back to haunt him. They do not care about hurting your fiancé and in turn you; they feel absolutely entitled to act as they have done. Such people as well do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. They were not good parents to him when he was growing up and I would keep any children you have by your fiancé well away from them too.

Here is the twist ladies, his father although a control freak is a very caring man who would go above and beyond to help us, putting himself on the backburner. He has sacrificed a lot for my dp and believes all he has done and does (including the nagging) to this day is in his benefit and that his advice is mentoring (like all parents do, I suppose). He is a worrier and sees his son as a child, that's the other massive issue.
I don't believe his father as a "bad" person. I have seen terrible parents, he is far from that. He is just someone who needs to be told that their behaviour does more damage than good and that they have a wonderful soon who doesn't need him to check if he is in bed every night.

GrockleBocs - I would have a long chat with dp re counselling and believe he would be willing to do it. The reason of putting up with it is, as I mentioned above, the fact that his dad has sacrificed a lot for him and was always there for him.
In terms of the worst that could happen, being on non speaking terms should be it. It would really bother my partner as he would hate to see his father hurt.

How can a control freak be at all caring, your future FIL is simply not. He has used his son as a means and way to get his own selfish needs met; he has projected his own self onto your fiance. Its been all about him as an overbearing father and his wife is no better. He sees his adult son now and in turn you as being somehow incapable even as adults; this is precisely how controlling parents operate. His "help" is a means of getting you both further obligated to him, he feels that you now owe him as a result.

How have you yourself seen terrible parents, how can you say he is far from that?. Simple answer is that you have not. Your own parents seem really nice, his are not. Your parents see you as an adult in your own right and give you freedom, his do not. His dad sees his son as an extension of him; your fiancé has never really been encouraged to have any boundaries when it comes to his parents so for him to have any now is extremely difficult. Please encourage him to see a therapist and do some reading yourself around the whole subject of controlling parents.

AttilaTheMeerkat, thanks for your advice. I will do some research and encourage my fiancé to talk to a therapist. It is quite strange actually, I have never really thought of his father trying to get his own selfish needs met until you mentioned it.

I am fully aware that, like you said, it is now extremely difficult for my partner to draw some lines as he has never been encouraged to do so.What is your advice for best tackling communication with his father on day to day basis before I convince my dp to see a therapist?

Have your own boundaries re FIL in what is and what is not acceptable to you from him. You do not have to respond straight away if at all to any of his text messages. When someone is trying to control you, it can be helpful to give yourself space to think over your response. Remember, your calmness is your power. Don’t let people believe that they can get under your skin.

It's the obligation bit that's the problem. Your dp feels he is obligated to his father and that somehow he 'owes' him, he has a duty to his parents.
I guess your parents treat you like an adult and you feel like a time will come when you want to care for them out of love, not because you feel obliged to. It's a very different dynamic.

the fact that his dad has sacrificed a lot for him and was always there for him

What exactly has his dad sacrificed.

A lot of what you mention is about his parents building their own careers whilst sacrificing their sons childhood culminating in your bf being on his own since he was still a child.

If you only see them once a year I would just put up with it. However I would not reply to texts if they were constant. If they were constant I'd let him to know that's he's annoying you. Or you could even change your number and not give him your new one. I think you should still marry your significant other, your marrying him not his family. As long as your significant other is nothing like his father then you should have no problems.

This is your fiances business, not yours.

Yes it's very very trying. I don't agree he's doing it to ' get his own selfish needs met': we're none of us perfect and it sounds that FIL has compulsive behaviors he is not managing well, they're getting the better of him.

It is for your fiance to address all this, probably with a professional. Getting out from under our parents shadow is a process that takes time, particularly when our parents have been troublesome for varying reasons.

I'll tell you what, the perfect ILs don't exist. Some get lucky for sure but there'll always be something we don't like, is onerous and trying, even upsetting. Managing challenging relationships is a right of passage to full adulthood. It's often not an easy path but you keep going. You can do the shrill ' cut them off!' but that is to miss an opportunity to emotionally mature by negotiating difficult elements in life and relationships.

It's up to your fiance to manage his dad. Worrying about him isn't that different to his dad worrying about him: it infantalises him, sending the message that you don't believe he has the capabilities to manage. Have a bit of faith in him.

What difference does it make about the sacrifices his dad has made? That's what parenting is! Your DP didn't ask to be born, they chose to have him. What his dad has done is called parenting, and is not something that should be held over him to 'repay' for the rest of his life!

I realise that none of this is really helpful to what you are asking, but really, your DP doesn't owe them a thing!

Your father in law who you've met once has your mobile number and that of your friends?

His mother wasn't 'careless' she was abusive and he probably would have been removed from their care nowadays.

His father is an abusive bully.

These are not good caring parents. Google fear obligation guilt. Seek therapy for your dp and encourage NC.

Re springydaffs - you summarised exactly what I was thinking the whole time. I would do my best to have faith in him . Thank you so much for the comprehensive advice!!!

In terms of the sacrifices his father has made, I know for a fact that he used to spend every weekend taking my dp to snowboarding while studying for his exams in the car waiting for him; took out his retirement fund and savings to send dp to a professional athlete high school in the US and the list goes on. It is parenting but I also understand where the obligation stems from.

In terms of him having phone numbers of friends, yes, especially as those friends have been dps friends since college and he has met multiple times. They are now my friends too.

Your fiancé certainly needs your support and you need to further understand the dynamics that is going on here with him and them. His parents are not just merely difficult; they are abusive in nature and his dad wants power and control over him and in turn you. He sees his son and in turn you as incapable, people who should bend to his will and his say.

No-one is perfect but that does not mean you have to take any form of abuse from parents, in-laws, work colleagues or anyone else for that matter. Its not also about managing so called challenging relationships either, his dad is clearly someone who cannot be managed. Self preservation is therefore necessary for both of you.

His parents have abjectly failed him and he is mired in his own fear, obligation and guilt as a result. His father likely feels that his son owes him for all that he supposedly did for him. He has used his son as an extension of his own self and acted out of pure selfishness, not altruism. He and you for that matter owe his parents zip.

I would suggest as a first step, because you both will need to change things in steps do you can both be comfortable with it, you make a pact where you devote the same 1/2 hour each evening to communicating with his dad. It’ll be normal for you then to do so and consistent and predictable to his father.

After you are both reliably doing that without caving in you can swap to either every other day or missing out one day in 3.

As much as you want to be able to have firm boundaries now, unless both of you are confident to do so the inconsistency with make the process so much harder.

If his father says anything you can both be clear that this time you’ve allocated is what best fits into your routine and is best for you with all the commitments you both have.

I am not convinced that this man has been a good father to your partner, OP.

He sounds controlling, overbearing, and manipulative to me.

I suggest you deal with things one at a time. First, set boundaries regarding the phone use: tell him, just once, that you're really busy and so won't be able to respond instantly to his messages and texts. Tell him you'll check in once a week (give him a specific day and perhaps time) and answer anything important then. And then ignore everything he sends you until that day. If he kicks off, ignore him. If he contacts your friends and they contact you, tell them to ignore him too.

You can't control everything he does, but you can tell him clearly how you're going to react, and then stick to it. It will make you feel less stressed in the long run.

What would happen if your partner or you asked fil to stop contacting you so frequently? When he messages, do you respond? Because of you don’t nd you ask your friends to ignore his subsequent messages, it will become clear to him that you can’t be controlled by him constantly messaging.

Vivo what you list I wouldn't think of as sacrifices it is just making sure your dc has the best start in life you can give them. I.e normal parenting.

So he sat outside a sports centre for an hour or so a week. Big f**king deal.
He sent his child to private school. So do many many people. Some work full time just to pay the fees rather than dip into a pension pot.

I don't see what sacrifices they have made. They have done exactly what they wanted to do and expect your dp to be grateful

Everything FiL does, is done with the intention of control.

Doing some perfectly normal parenting, then holding it over the child as a "sacrifice" is a classic abusive tactic by parents.

"We did this (perfectly average parent thing) FOR YOU, so now YOU OWE US"

Suggest fiance gets some serious counselling, and you both need to start setting some serious boundaries.

You are not obliged to contact him.

You are not obliged to answer.

He has zero fucking right to contact your friends- in fact that's one of the creepiest things about this.

All this "worried" contact and demanding immediate answers is another form of control.
And it's clever......because FiL get's to paint it as "concern" thus guilting you into answering him.

Serious therapy needed here.

Get fiance to look up "FOG" (Fear Obligation Guilt)

And start putting ip some serious boundaries.

Honestly though, I'm not sure I deal with this.

Go over to the "Stately Homes" thread....to see how much impact controlling in laws can have on future family life...
Things like demanding access to grandchildren, thinking they can access your house whenever etc etc.

And another thing...

DO NOT TAKE FINANCIAL HELP FROM THESE PEOPLE.

They will treat it as a lifelong debt to them.
They will hold it over you and make ever more unreasonable demands.
They will use it as a massive beating stick.

If your fiance isn't mature enough to stand up to his father, DO NOT marry him. It will only get worse.