I think its time to go low contact with my mother -but how?

[shouldaknownbetter]

My mum's always been quite childish, selfish and always thinks she is right and the rest of the world is wrong and then gets upset when people don't agree with that.

She is very disrespectful of my boundaries for example as a child she chose my hair, makeup etc until quite a late age (16 or so) and opened my mail, chucked out things of mine without asking etc.

I've never really liked her but been blamed for this all my life as she will guilt trip me if I show her any signs of rejection saying I'm horrible etc.

Anyway, she has for the past several years come to our house once a week under the guise of 'helping out' with house stuff as DH is a SAHD but will then reorganise our stuff in ways we do not want, put things in the house we don't want without telling us (eg air freshener in bathroom when we have a fan), and she even got the toilet brush holder and put it in the bin as it was a bit rusty and then used the children's hair rinsing jug to put the shitty loo brush in. And I've asked her many times not to go into my study which she refused. One time I found tea bags in my pen pot so it's not even tidying up just putting random stuff in random places.

Anyway I've put up with this for several years but the last time, I asked her to stop as we don't want her to do this and she got all upset and had a big row in front of the children saying I was ungrateful. Then later when she calmed down she agreed that if she couldn't stop herself from tidying up/rearranging stuff she wouldn't come round.

Also my daughter who she was looking after one day a week (more for her sake than ours as we don't need the childcare) has started to say she doesn't want to go there as granny shouts at her, so I've said she doesn't have to go (on her own) and have now been accused of poisoning her against grandma as my mum thinks she does no wrong.

So we agreed as a compromise either me or my husband would take both children round for tea one day after school (DS is school age).

But last Saturday she phoned up and said 'i'm coming round to see the children' (no asking, telling us) and I said ok then but remember our agreement that you're not to tidy/reorganise our things. Cue big shouting match and she slammed the phone down on me. She then called back and DD who is only 4 picked up the phone downstairs unaware that it would be her, she starts shouting at her 'tell your mum she's being very rude!' so I grabbed the phone off DD and said don't talk to her like that or involve her in this.

I phoned back and she let it go to answerphone, I thought good I can speak without being interrupted and explained my position calmly that all I want is for her not to tidy up our stuff and she can only come round if she agrees to that.

Now, she is not speaking to me although she is phoning the house every day to speak to the children and ask my DH to bring them round to her house.

Even though she is not speaking to me, she will use the fact that I haven't phoned her to apologise against me.

I've been reading up lately on toxic parents and she ticks a few boxes. I'm so fed up of this and am considering going LC. I don't want to cut her out completely because of the children and also it's not got to that point yet. But I need her in the background, not the foreground of my life. She's treating me like shit and she's beginning to involve the kids too which I simply won't have. Any advice on how to deal with her?

God she sounds just like my mother who I'm also sitting on the fence about right now. My DS birthday is right in the middle of the christmas holidays, he was 3 and she didn't turn up, no present, no card, just a phone call to say not to wait for her, she was busy and tired because her husband had an operation a couple of weeks before. This however didn't stop her going to see my brothers kids three days before or my uncle two days before. She sent me a text message on NYE (a couple of days after the birthday non appearance) but I haven't replied or had any contact with her since then. I've had a text from the husband asking if they've done anything to upset me and telling me that they were eating through all the meals I made for their freezer before his op, but I haven't replied to him either.

I've also been reading up on toxic parents and particularly narcissistic ones which it sounds like our mothers both are and it seems like we just have to be clear and calm with them and not let their recriminations and guilt trips get the better of us. I find the idea of confronting my mother terrifying because she's been so completely awful in the past. But it seems like it's time we both just told them to back off! It may be a cop out but I'm just going to reply to the husbands text and explain that not showing at DS birthday was incredibly hurtful and was one event in a catalogue of hurtful things and I need time and distance to let my thoughts perculate. Maybe you could do something similar on your mothers answer machine?

Either way she sounds bloody awful and you have every right not to have someone being emotionally abusive hanging around in your life. Good luck xxx

Does yours never admit to being wrong and always turn it round to blaming you?

I think my watershed was when my little girl said granny shouts at me and I don't like it, funny what we can put up with for ourselves but when we see our kids being subjected to it it changes our perspective.

I'm thinking my mum may be borderline, rather than nark. She does that classic borderline thing of pushing you away then getting angry with you for rejecting her. I've found a great resource on reddit - there is a subreddit called raised by borderlines. There is probably a narc one too if you think your mum is that! But we are not alone - loads of people out there with these toxic parents, as a child you think it is all your fault though and you are the only one.

My mum thinks she is punishing me by not talking to me, but although it hurts it's actually a relief in many ways. Plus I feel like the house is ours again, even when she's not there I'm constantly thinking she'll root through the drawers or make judgements on things we've bought.... makes me realise how messed up it all was.

Good luck to you too.

Hello to both of you. I’m nearly 60 and have had some terrible experiences with my mother. One thing I learned is that I can’t change her behaviour I can only change my reaction. This sounds pretty obvious and forgive me if you’ve already heard this. It will work eventually, in conversation just keep your voice low, calm and monotonous. Repeat your points slowly, treat her as a small annoying dog that needs to learn respect. And above all don’t react, she’s your mother and she knows exactly how to push your buttons!! I wish you both the best of luck for the future.

Thank you Yvonne,

The problem with my mother is that she is just completely unwilling to look at the part she may have played in any conflict. So it's really hard to get any traction, she won't even meet in the middle! So any conversations are bound to go round in circles

Mum: You've been horrible to me and should apologise(usually because she hasn't got her own way)
Me: But I was upset because you (insert example of mother's unreasonable behaviour)
Mum: No I havent! I've been perfectly nice. You're so ungrateful and horrible....

And again and again ad infinitum.
She also expects people to make concessions all the time 'because I'm your mum' 'because I'm old' and her favourite, if she's lonely and trying to force us to go round or meet up 'because I haven't got a partner'..

She has the gall to demand respect from me when she is so completely disrespectful of my feelings, needs and wants. For example when my son was born we told her specifically that she couldn't come until visiting time, the hospital wouldn't let her in. It was only a few hours to wait. So she completely ignored that, turned up an hour after the birth tried to make them let her in, they said no, so DH had to go out and talk to her for half an hour when we were having those precious first moments with baby. That's just one example of how she works.

Grrrr! writing all this out has been therapeutic if nothing else!

Can you change your house phone and say you have got rid of your house phone so you can screen your calls more easily. Or get a caller display phone and tell your children that they are not to answer the phone.

OP if she says “ you’ve been horrible to me and you should apologise” try saying “I’m sorry you feel that way” and change the subject.
Don’t react the way she expects you too, wrong foot her but try and stay calm.
My mother phoned me to remind me that it was my son’s birthday the next day! She had the date wrong, so a conversation began with me trying to tell her that she had the wrong date. The conversation ended with my mother saying “but Yvonne, I was there” and I really wanted to say “where the hell do you think I was??
It’s taken me years to come to terms with her. For your sake and for your children’s sake try and detach from her nastiness.

You go low/no contact simply by just DOING it. Don't answer her calls. It's about bloody time she learns there are consequences for her behaviour and total lack of respect for you. Show your child how to be strong and that this type of treatment and outrageous behaviour must not be tolerated by ANYONE. Even if it is your own mother.

Oh shouldaknownbetter!! A quote from my mother, verbatim "I will not be criticised". And that was just some trivial thing that I can't even remember. My OH heard it and still makes a joke of it now, but it made me so angry! I'll check out the reddit thing...I've completely had enough of being made to feel unimportant, I'm deffo her biggest disappointment :( And yes, you're right about the kid thing....she see's my brother's kids every week seemingly without fail, but my older boy she invites over maybe a couple of times a year and the little she has had him over for one afternoon once in his whole life :( ( that is without us there) It's too hard not to take it personally but she will minimise anything I feel to the point where I feel that there must be something wrong with me not her. I'm pretty certain the relationship is broken beyond repair.

Aquamarine so simple and yet so true :)

Hi Yvonne, you're definitely right, but my mother is way too subtle for me to treat her like a yapping dog. It's more in her actions than what she says. Or her inactions when it comes to me and my kids. I've basically decided I don't really want anything more to do with her because there is so much hurt and baggage there that it's impossible for us to continue like there's nothing wrong while I'm always shunted to the bottom of the list...well not even me, but my kids, if I was at the bottom of the list but they were included that would be a different story.

I'm sorry that you've struggled with your mother too...what is it with these odd women? MY MIL is a complete nightmare too, honestly they're exhausting to try and figure out, second guess and not be manipulated by :(

I've went lower and lower contact with my toxic M, and have seen her twice in the last 5 years, both at family functions that I didn't want to feel that she had forced me to stay away want to miss.

The less I saw her and the less I spoke to her on the phone, the better I felt. I should have done it 10 years earlier. The difference to my wellbeing, confidence and happiness is huge. And I no longer waste so much time on tears, stress, fear of what she will do next and misplaced self-recriminations.

It's hard the first few times, but just say no to offers to come round or requests that you visit. 'No, that doesn't work for us' is a staple MN line. For me simply having other plans also worked. 'Thank you for the invitation but I can't make it.' If you then get asked why not, just keep repeating the same line, 'I can't make it', 'It doesn't work for me'.

I don't want to cut her out completely because of the children

If she is horrible to your children that is the best reason to cut her out completely.

Hi shoulda

re your comment:-
"I don't want to cut her out completely because of the children and also it's not got to that point yet"

The above may simply be your own FOG talking - fear, obligation and guilt. Those are three of many damaging legacies left by such inadequate parents to their now adult offspring. One generation i.e you has already been affected by such toxicity and now your own DD has already been in her firing line as well. Low contact as well often leads to no contact. Your mother has not been able to respect any boundaries and will likely continue to ride roughshod over them. I do not therefore think that low contact for you will work in the long term re her.

You asked however about low contact and that is the very first step of LC: for you to realize that you owe her nothing: no explanations, no excuses, none of your time or your attention or your soul. You owe her nothing and you can give her as much or as little time as you want to give. This is the very core of Low Contact: turning the tables so that you are in control of the relationship, so that it is based on your desires and willingness to spend time with your mother. And that means all kinds of time, not just face time. It means telephone calls, emails, texts, letters, visits, lunches out, shopping expeditions—it means all forms of contact. It means that you take control of those contacts, rather than allow her to drop in and disrupt your life at her whim.

How do you do it? Well, you start with recognizing that she is not going to like it, no matter what method you employ and you prepare yourself for it. Low Contact is about one thing: putting yourself in control of the relationship instead of her.

I think your relationship has already gone beyond the point of no return from what you have written. She was not a good parent to you when growing up and she is not a good example of a grandparent to your children either. She has not fundamentally altered since your childhood; such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Its not your fault she is like this, you did not make her that way. Do read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as a starting point and read/post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread as well.

Ultimately you're going to have to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.