Can't say in RL

[Callmebyyourname]

Really not sure what I expect from this as I genuinely don't think the outcome will change, but I don't feel I can talk about it in RL.

I don't think Im happy in my marriage.

Been together 12 years, married 5 years and have a 4 Yr old dd.
3 years ago I think he almost cheated as I found some messages implying he had feelings for someone else. Flirting and such.
It destroyed me as dd was only 8 months old, but looking back, I can see that our marriage was not going well. I was distant and uninterested (no excuse at all but understand where it came from)

I'm not sure anything has changed. I like him and enjoy spending time with him, but it feels like we are more like friends. I say I love him through comfort I think and as a friend. Im not sure I love him romantically/sexually any more.
We don't have sex, and I don't really want to. I don't know if thats me not wanting it at all, or just not with him.

He loves our dd (even though I feel I do 75-80% of all the care) and is a nice person. He is shy and lacks some confidence so knowing I felt thins way would crush him.
I don't think I could leave him. I couldn't hurt someone like that.
What if this is just what marriage is like for me. Maybe I'm not capable of anything more (I have anxiety, low self esteem and presume the grass isn't actually greener on the other side, just lonelier)
I live far away from family so I'd be isolated if we split (I couldn't take dd away from him to move closer to my family. It would be unfair)

Like I said, I don't know how I think this will help, as I think I'll still be with him when I'm old, but a big part of me is hoping he'll mess up and cheat to give me that reason to change things.

I'd be scared to be alone. I dislike myself quite a bit and don't think anyone else would find me attractive. And the fear of anyone else seeing all of me and my mental issues (especially fear of my naked body as have only ever been with dh) is too much.
Dh tells me he loves me and I think he really does but we've changed and grown apart. Well I have.
Sometimes I think it's just me seeing all the negatives (again mental issue) and life is ok and it'd be stupid to change anything.

Wow, that feels good to write down.

@Callmebyyourname

Gosh this is a complicated scenario.

So here's what I think.

I can sense that you're despondent from your post.

That your body issues push your DH away. Did this happen because he made you feel worthless flirting with this OW or have they always been there?

You 'think' he cheated?
Not knowing and continuing in this relationship is very unhealthy. Go back further, for him to flirt message someone is not healthy. His needs were not being met.

I get the impression you are both Conflict Avoiders?

I think I have always had some body issues and mental issues.
Dh was my first boyfriend and sexual partner. Had only ever kissed 2 people before him and didn't have any experiences until the age of 20. This just reinforced my lack of confidence and any issues I had.
When we were first together we had sex a lot but it was never great. I got joy from him enjoying it, not actually enjoying it myself.
He is a definite conflict avoider. He doesn't like talking about anything. He won't talk about our relationship and we've been over and over the "cheating" and he will just say nothing happened, but won't actually tell me anything. Then it just turns into me not being able let it go and him wanting to know if I'll ever get over it.
I think I am the opposite and am always finding faults and raising conflict. I think it do it to try and get to the root of the issue and resolve it but he's not for doing it. I guess that puts him down as I am negative about life and him so he prob feels inadequate.
I just don't want to destroy him. I am a people pleaser (I'm everything I do) I'll run myself to the ground and drain myself just so that someone else doesn't have to get hurt or pick up the slack.

Your communication styles are very different and tbh, I find most men to be conflict avoiders...

Go google 'Codependency'. You should not keep giving unconditionally.

His EA Messages are the elephant in the room and do need addressing and unpacked and you absolutely deserve to know the truth. By him doing this has made your body/intimacy issues more difficult. You were essentially not enough for him, which of course is not true but this may play on your mind...

Google John Gottman, buy his books, visit 'MarriageBuilders' website go to Relate but do something before this relationship gets any worse OP.

I chose to stay in a marriage like yours, and I don't regret it. However, i trust him and am confident he isn't going to stray- I won't go into why, tldr.

What we lack in passion and romance, we have in trust and security. We know each other's families, know each other, inside out. We are a family unit.

You could work on regaining the romance in your relationship, as well.

I want to revive that romance and a physical attraction. I want to be turned on by him. I haven't been for a long time.
I guess I feel secure because I genuinely think he doesn't want us to split so he wouldn't be stupid enough to make another mistake. But I still relive that mistake and what happened after and it still hurts.
If I was a stronger more confident person I'd have left in the aftermath of the mistake but I didn't.
We have a lot in common and find the same things funny and are good friends,but I'm not sure I love him in the same way anymore.

Your post resonates a lot with me OP except my DH as far as I know is and always has been 100% faithful. I choose to stay because he makes life happier, better and easier/more comfortable. He loves me unconditionally and happily puts up with getting less in return for the life we have. I try to appreciate him as much as possible and have pushed the physical stuff into the long grass for now as it seems to only be me who has a problem with it when I've raised it.

If I was a stronger more confident person I'd have left in the aftermath of the mistake but I didn't.

Then this is where you should start!
You need to bolster your confidence and then you can tackle your insecurities. Go for counselling, do some exercising, join a group, just get out of the funk you're in right now!

Work on YOU! Your DH doesn't define you OP. He cheated emotionally on you because of his issues not you. He chose not to talk about his issues before he made the decision to cheat. You guys need to address this elephant but maybe when you feel stronger inside?

I think that could be a good idea bibbidee
I started an exercise class last year and am much more confident than I ever used to be (possibly hence the confidence to even write this post) I am also trying my hardest to build a social group of friends and have made plans to do things with them as I have spent most of my adult life isolated apart from dh.
Ive been to counselling before but I think Ive been too afraid to admit that maybe my marriage is not working and what that could lead to. Counselling could force me to realise some things I am not ready for.

puppymouse do you worry that you'll never have that physical attraction again? It's something I crave and fantasise about but it's not there with dh.
Is it just my issue though. It's easy to feel it in a fantasy but if we did end things what reason is there to think that I'd find that with someone else in the real world.

pickleme I feel the same in that our lives are so entwined. Family, home, even work that it's comfortable and feels safe.

Callme I don't know if we'll ever have it tbh. It wasn't what our relationship was originally based on. I know it isn't just me but DH is sure it's just down to having young DC. I know it isn't as the issue was there before.

But I figure sex is less of a necessity than care and kindness and teamwork day to day when it comes to building and sustaining a life with someone. I have always been attracted to unsuitable men so wouldn't trust my judgment if I was single out in the world again!

When you put the 'grass is greener' question aside, and acknowledge that this is who you have and this is who you are, then you have to focus on making yourself happy in that situation. So if you want a sex life again, train yourself to find him attractive. The brain is very cool, it learns what you teach it (which is why porn is so dangerous). If you fantasise about him, and role play being a woman who finds him gorgeous, you'll surprise yourself!

pickle I really hope you are right. My fantasies don't involve him unfortunately. Anyone but him tbh.
Not sure how to train my brain to desire him again when I just don't feel any passion at all.
Any tips?

Put him in your fantasies. Practise getting all hot and steamy, and give your imaginary him a role in that. Maybe replay in your mind some of your early encounters. When you look at him, switch off the mum brain which notices that he's missed a bit shaving, or is wearing blue socks with brown trousers, and look at the cute dimple, lickable earlobes, sexy hands. I'm having to use a lot of imagination here! You know how friends find the strangest things attractive when they feel you about someone they like? (Quirky eyebrows, freckle on the back of his neck)? Try and create some of those things.

Is there anything he does, or used to do, that you liked? My problem is, DH doesn't listen and is clumsy like having sex with a child, sorry. There is only so much I can do on my own, so I've given up. We're a bit young to be sexless, but hey ho.

So when your DD is older she comes to you and tells you exactly this.
What do you tell her?
Carry on - just live a half life - your total happiness doesn't matter. You don't need to love someone to spend your life with them. You are OK to settle!
Or.
Well DD this is your life. You get one shot at it. Live it to the fullest and don't settle.

What advice you would give your DD is the advice you should give yourself!! Don't value yourself any less!

There are a lot of issues, both individually and together that need to be unpicked. Firstly, you have one life, there are no do overs, why waste more time being unfulfilled? Work on your issues first and hopefully you'll receive more clarity on where your solo issues end where your couple issues begin.

Tbh, your relationship never sounded great and maybe your marriage and child became a convenient hiding place from your own issues.

You've reached a point where you realise you want more, that isn't a crime and maybe happiness doesn't involve being married to this man. Staying with someone out of fesr of being alone or fear of hurting them is a life that you will come to resent.

hells that's an interesting perspective to take. I hope that she grows into someone far more confident than me who makes decisions based on what makes her happy right from the start and have the drive to change things. Not like the people pleaser that I am.

You are all right that there is only one chance at this but it doesn't sit well with me being the person who destroys someone else's one chance.
He's a lovely person, shy and caring. But I wonder what sort of people we both could become.
I hear things from other people about their lives that just makes me think that there is nothing unusual about our marriage. It's just how life is. I'd be too afraid to jump and regret it (my fear is of the unknown)

pickle I don't think there is anything he does/did do that I particularly liked. I'd love him to lose weight (but I'm not going to tell him that as I should be losing some too and it shouldn't matter even though I feel it does)
He's not confident in the bedroom (and neither am I as he is all I've known) As fits with my previous comments I try and direct him and he tries and then when it doesn't quite do the job I cave and say it was nice so he doesn't feel like a failure (it is ok just not wow and he does know that it's not wow - I don't fake it. Feels like we are teenagers who have no idea what we are doing and don't fit)
I don't want to be lying there barking orders like I'm trying to get him to do the housework!

Wish he took control.
I've tried lots of things and investigated things we can try but nothing ever seems to work (maybe I'm not doing it right or maybe the whole thing is that I've lost the attraction and I won't get turned on unless I get that back)
Wish he'd investigate things that he wanted to try too. Try and change things, but he won't. Ive asked and he doesn't know. He is not decisive at all! Maybe I've made him that way as I so often take charge. Not sure which came first, him not making the decisions or me making them so he sat back and didn't need to.

Have you done some investigating into sex therapy.
This could really help with your intimacy and things get better from there!?

Ah, ok. Have you tried role play? I know it sounds a bit weird, but it frees us up to be something else. And masturbate with him.

In some ways, I'm with Hell's. Life is short. On the other hand, I don't regret the choice I made. Life separately would be tough, and our chances of finding 'the one' pretty slim, I think. And we're happy in all the other ways. I had BFs that were great in bed, but a nightmare in every other way. And that 'taking charge' thing led it to be at times not quite consensual. It's a tough line to negotiate!

Have you ever felt sexually attracted to anyone, male or female?

Do you orgasm when you masturbate?

Does it have to be a question of leaving or staying? Can it not be a question of improving?

You say your DH would be devastasted to hear that you felt the way you do - but by not telling him, you're not really giving him a chance to change or to prove that things can be different.

I agree with others that the thought that it will hurt someone if you leave them is not a rationale for staying. It is more hurtful, in the long run, to waste time in a relationship that doesn't work.

It sounds as though you would both benefit from some counselling to talk this through.

hells that's definitely an option on my part but dh won't go to therapy or counselling of any kind. He doesn't like to talk about what he feels/thinks etc.

pickle no we've not tried role play. Maybe I'll suggest it as something to try. Not sure how confident I would be with it but I could look into it and see. Maybe role play for scared beginners!

notthefordtype yes I most definitely have felt sexual attracted to someone. I must have when I first met dh but the sex never quite worked out well. I was always left dissatisfied. I think him being my first and me lacking confidence and not knowing myself and him not being sure either started us off badly.
Yes I do orgasm when I masturbate. I am never thinking of dh though.

whisk I would love to stay and for things to improve. That would be the ideal outcome for me. Keeping my family together whilst being happy myself too.
I try to talk to dh about my thoughts and feelings and what I think we could do to make things better, but he's never keen on making changes or adding his own opinions or suggestions to the mix. It's all very one sided from me. It feels like he's given up and thinks nothing he can do will make things better so why bother.

It sounds as though you need another party, maybe a counsellor, to create some space for you both to hear each other and to contribute to discussions about the future. It sounds pretty much like a deal-breaker: either counselling happens or you leave because nothing will change another way.

I have broached counselling several times and the response is always the same. "No, you know I don't like talking about how I feel so I'm not going to do it with a stranger"