Seems like he's in it for the social aspect to me..

[FritzDonovan]

Had a thread a while back about dh deciding he was now a deeply religious person (has chopped and changed religious interests, finally settled on one), and insisting on Sunday mornings at church, along with choir practice one evening a week. Not a wholly bad thing, I've supported him through years of his varying beliefs and time spent at church,
encouraging the DC because he wanted them involved too.
The problem lay in his insistence that any objections I raised were an attack on his deeply held religious beliefs. He was quite nasty about it at one point. At a time when he'd come back from working away for half the year, and had been spending a lot of time sightseeing /eating out/drinking/texting some colleague (f) past what I saw as appropriate, while barely having any contact with us, his DW and DC. The DC aren't interested in church now they're older as they find it boring and don't really believe. Apparently I've caused this.
Anyway, for one reason or another, the choir hasn't been practicing for many weeks, and during this time (both before and after xmas) he hasn't gone to church either. Not because we've had anything planned. I had a feeling from the start that the fuss he made about going was more about control than anything, and his main interest for going was social rather than a deeply held religious conviction. This seems to have been demonstrated by being completely disinterested when the choir isn't involved. Which makes his insistence that I was denying him his religious freedom rather odd.
I am categorically not starting a debate over rights of believers vs non believers, but asking what would your take be on this? He got his way, making out I was deliberately being nasty/mean not to want him to go every week, then doesn't go anyway. Is his interest more social/singing than actual religious belief?
(he doesn't do any alternative religious activity/worship)
Sorry it's so long. Tried not to drip feed!

he sounds so fucking exhausting.. I'd have to leave him or serve a life sentence and a small prison cell ...

I know quite a few people who would profess to being deeply religious and they all attend church regularly and are involved in the church in other ways, organising fundraisers, on committees, running different groups, so while there is very much a social aspect to it all of what they do stems from their faith and their commitment to that faith and what it requires of them.

Your husband does not appear to demonstrate that faith, he is using religion for his own purposes, which is absolutely fine, there are plenty of people who do but he needs to be honest about it especially with you. You are right I think in feeling manipulated by his professions of faith as and when they suit his agenda.

It is absolutely fine to teach your children about religion and take them to church so they learn and can then choose for themselves based on that knowledge but neither parent should be blamed for a child not believing or not wanting to practice a particular religion. Once they are old enough to make that choice, they like everyone else should have the freedom to choose and none of you should have another family member’s beliefs rammed down your throats no matter how deep he believes his faith to be.

Low threshold? It's you with the low threshold - or at least low expectations.

He sounds thoroughly revolting. Does he work is he paid well? If so your maintenance will be a tidy sum should you split. A lot more than you seem to realise. Plus you'll probably get the house until the youngest is at least 18. Just saying.

Plus you need to write. You have the gift my dear.

Op, you talk about a low threshold to ltb over, and then you say "I know he can lie convincingly to my face."

I don't call that a low threshold.

I see what you mean, but who can honestly say they haven't told a single lie in their lives, in a situation of stress, for example. A lie he has told has been about something which would have made him look bad when confronted. The truth of it was admitted later. I'm not saying that's okay, just that I don't think I'd be able to tell if he told me a lie or truth if I asked him that question.
Yes, that does sound shit, but if everyone left at the moment they were told a lie, I bet there would be very few lasting marriages.

(and thx springy)

I think there is a difference between telling an occasional lie and deliberately gaslighting, manipulating and making you doubt yourself, which is what he seems to be doing here.

Do you want to stay married to him? What does he bring to your life?

A lie he has told has been about something which would have made him look bad when confronted. The truth of it was admitted later. I'm not saying that's okay, just that I don't think I'd be able to tell if he told me a lie or truth if I asked him that question.

You are describing my exhusband here. He lied about everything. It utterly described the marriage. It meant he had no respect for me and that behaviour played out elsewhere.

I don't know why you think this wouldn't be grounds for separating/divorce.

I remember your previous thread

Your DH is either interested in someone in the choir..Or he likes being centre of attention re the choir, church attendance & probably makes people there roll their eyes either way, the choir and who/what is therein is his main interest

He's fake as fuck and a massive pain in the arse. You sound nice and patient OP.. I know I'd have binned him long ago. I simply cannot take drama inserted into relationships - unkind talk/behaviour, other women, disengaging from family etc. Do all that ish without me by your side, I want a happy fulfilled life not one made miserable by the person Im supposed to love, and likewise.

I've been there before. After a time I had a mantra for myself "you were not born with this man you can live without him and won't die for lack of him".

I'm a strong believer that not everyone you feel you must have, is actually good for you. That goes for relationships and friendships. I've stuck to that as it makes life less fraught.

I wwnder if your DH will find a new (pseudo) interest really Im wondering if Ms Choir rejected him in no uncertain terms so he's embarassed to show his face and is home licking his ego wounds at the slight

If was truly a godly person he wouldn't be forcing his religion onyou. He just sounds like a twat to me.

had been spending a lot of time sightseeing /eating out/drinking/texting some colleague (f)
How do you know about the texting to a female?

Your H sounds selfish and overbearing. Is that what you want?

Well, back to church on Sunday - choir was on, I hadn't thought it was. He does enjoy singing (loudly), so it could just be this. Unfortunately, I'm a lot more wary nowadays than I was.

The messages were on FB, we never had any issues seeing each other's social media, then again I never felt the need to check until one small discrepancy in conversation while he was away. I asked for his password and (5 mins later, as it was a text convo due to poor reception ) had a look. Relatively innocent messages, but quite a bit of directions for meeting up (in a group) for dinner/drinks, her asking for sightseeing recommendations, and sending him a pic of her drink out of the blue on a couple of occasions, when I assume they were doing different things that day. Which I thought odd, as he'd only been working with her for about four months or so. Then him asking if she was still up for the light afternoon drinking she'd mentioned previously. No sign of anyone else being invited along. She stole him a glass he admired in a bar, and started texting him in the evening when they were back home. Gossiping about another colleague, very familiarly. It was more contact than with anyone else, male or female. I guess it looked odd to me that he deliberately suggested spending time alone drinking with her, when there were plenty of guys there who he worked and socialized with. As well as the fact we had one postcard from his travels, until I raised the point. Then he sent a couple more. I was also quite put out that he found the time to download porn to watch later while on a public wifi, yet rarely emailed at that point unless he wanted something sorting. It's not that he didn't have any news- me and the DC found out what he'd been doing from what he posted on FB. A male colleague actually commented to him while away that he didn't ring his wife much... And it was often a ten min call as he was on his way somewhere interesting.
Still makes me cross thinking about it all.

You do know you don't need to be able to 'prove him wrong' to leave him, right? He's making you miserable. He's shown you over and over again that he doesn't prioritise you, your marriage or your happiness - I suspect you've ended up a bit fixated on the faith vs bollocks aspect of all this as a way of skirting round asking yourself what you really want.

You'll never know if he's a true believer because no one ever experiences faith in quite the same way as someone else, and really it doesn't matter whether he is or not. He's treating you appallingly. Stop wasting energy on whether he's 'the real deal' and just ask yourself is he someone you still want to be married to?

I know from my own experience that it is easy to get caught up in proving that you are being reasonable and he is not. But you don't have to prove anything. You don't have to be with someone you don't want to, and you can leave without making it anyone's fault.

I`m not going to bash him two sides to every story. But I do think he has checked out of the relationship and perhaps so have you. Now you have a few options, grin and bear it because you love him or because of the child. He may be thinking the same. You sit down and tell him you need to talk, ask him if he is happy, what does he want/need, tel him what you want/need. Your marriage may be over, or it may just be stalled.

Religious participation can be very much social for a lot of people. Granted, whatever his conviction is (whether it is deeply spiritual or just because he enjoys singing), I think it's inappropriate to force it on the family. I'm more religious that my dh who is agnostic/bordering on atheist. I'm Jewish, not Christian, though. And though I don't regularly participate in much religious life (due to there not being anywhere to attend services for me locally), I would happily involve my dh and dc if they wanted to participate. But it's my belief system and it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks and I wouldn't force them if they weren't interested. But yes, it's perfectly normal for involvement in religion to be about the social aspect. Some people just find it a safe and enjoyable space to talk to other people and get out of the house. That's fine, but they shouldn't be dogmatic or judgmental about anyone else being or not being involved (they shouldn't be anyway, regardless of why they want to go to church or wherever).

So that's fine and I wouldn't overthink it, but it sounds like maybe it's a bigger issue of control or disengaging from your relationship and this might just be one escape route among many, including working away, for not being fully involved in family life or dictating what the family does when he is at home. I think that's more of the issue.