I've changed... but I want our relationship to survive

[chocorosco]

DH is a tad chaotic. He hoards stuff, has no routines, is disorganised, impulsive, has nowhere near enough sleep, completely goes with the wind. Judging by his body language, his loud voice and demeanor, it stresses him out hugely but he likes to think that it doesn't.

Before DCs I found it all quite comical and freeing having been brought up by a militarian father engrossed in routine and tension.
Now that I'm a mother of DCs, my thoughts have changed. I experience anxiety (since DCs), migraines and other health problems so have discovered some wonderful remedies over the last couple of years. I've studied mindfulness and meditation, go to bed at a reasonable time, eat well and put my wellbeing as an utmost priority and it had helped enormously.
Since however, I've become more and more aware of DH's chaotic way of life which causes anxiety for us both! His big booming voice in the mornings and rush to leave the house in the few minutes he leaves himself to get himself ready, phone use age until very late in the evenings every night which keeps him wired and unable to sleep all creates stress for us both. He scoffs at my suggestions that he tries meditation to relax or just bloody goes to bed a bit earlier. I feel like we're mindsets apart. He is the same as he always was, it's me who has changed, since the DCs came along, living so eratically hasn't been so appealing to me anymore.
I'm interested in living more healthily and simply, but DH is not interested, and worse, his whole attitude and demeanor actually adds to my anxiety as I try to create a calmer, less cluttered home environment for us all to live in. I feel he's pulling in the opposite direction.
Can our relationship survive?

Very little sleep due to a restless DH again who came to bed v late and spent the night very unsettled. His side of the bedroom is a tip again and he's unlikely to be organised for the day... I'd just like a bit of calm in our lives... the DCs are less chaotic and less noisy than DH.

My DH is the same. I was the same as you, thought it was endearing before we had kids. Now his disorganization, procrastination and booming voice make me wince. I'm convinced my DH has ADHD.

Sounds like you still love your DH (I don't love mine). Have you spoken to him about how it upsets you? Has he tried to organise himself?

I've also wondered about ADHD/Aspergers NK1 but some of DH's family are the same so it could well be a learned trait.

I think I still love him, but can't deny that it has really put me off him since DCs came along. We have spoken about it but he genuinely believes that late nights, spontaneity and 'winging it' works well for him! But it's me that faces the backlash of it. I've suggested this morning that we sleep in seperate rooms, I really need a good 7-8 hours sleep to function and I also want to rise earlier in the morning without feeling steam rollered. We're on completely different pages.
He argues that he won't be able to sleep if he goes to bed earlier, but when he lies there on his phone over-stimulating himself rather than winding down... it's not surprising!
it's strange how something that appears endearing at first can send you into a rage post-DCs isn't it!

Yes it really is weird how all of DHs endearing traits are now hewdwrecking. I guess I indulged them before the DCs came along but now I expect him to step up and he hasn't

It’s not weird. It is really common!

When children come along your entire life shifts in order to accommodate the new demands and you have very different needs.

It is very common for women to make these changes and for men to not or for women to find that the things they found endearing about their partner actually make life with children much harder than it was before.

I’m not sure whether the relationship will survive TBH, it depends how much work you both put into it, but this is a very common reason for a split.

Think you have to focus on you and ignore him. Stop trying to give him lessons and suggestions. Just detach in those areas. He will never respond to lectures. So in the mornings do your own thing. If he is rushing about don't help him. Just speak calmly to the children and refuse to buy into his drama.
My dh was an entrepeneur who loved the drama of last minute dashing around etc. I thought it was exciting but then wanted a calmer life. When he couldnt find his phone or dashed off without his wallet l didn't engage or remind him just stayed calm myself. Funnily enough he is much calmer now and is the one reminding me.
( menopause!! )
When he complained in the mornings about being wrecked after staying up half the night l just ignored him.
So detach detach detach. He may see the light. And no lectures!

Given that you really want the relationship to survive, I'd suggest strong boundaries. You can't decide how he's going to live or change, but you can identify really specific things that are a problem to you and look constructively together for ways to solve those problems. If he loves you he should be willing to do this, but the best solutions might not be the ones that leap to your mind: they have to work for him too. Don't take him on as another child - he has to do his part as a parent - but equally, be really careful to distinguish between what's harming you and what's merely irritating you. For the latter things, it may well be that the best solution is for you to chill. (The line between these things is not as bright as it might at first appear, but I think it's useful nonethelesss. Eg I put up with a lot of untidiness, which ideally I wouldn't, but it's easier for me to put up with it than for him to change! But I won't put up with cluttered kitchen surfaces, because they have to be clean to cook on and that makes more work for me if they're cluttered. That kind of thing.)

The thing is...you trying to impart the knowledge of the 'better' way is possibly coming across like you are trying to 'parent' him and that is never going to go down well. You can't decide for him that he has to change his mind-set. He's an adult and that's how he runs things...and the fact that you think you know better won't change it. You're on a hiding to nothing trying. It's frustrating for you and aggravating for him.
If he decides he wants to organise himself differently it has to be of his own accord. You can suggest things, sure, but expecting him to comply is folly. He has autonomy just as you do and isn't obliged to go along with it.

You'll either have to rub along or....not.

This does sound a frustrating situation. However it will do you no good at all focusing on his faults and his way of living. If you have taken up meditation that is wonderful and should be able to help detach you from HIS issues. He is a grown man that can take care of himself and face the consequences of his actions. If his loud voice shakes you up (which I can totally understand) tell him this DIRECTLY and say "can you please not talk in that tone around me it hurts my ears and upsets the children". Nagging and telling him he is wrong will only encourage him to rebel against you, but if you are understanding and place boundaries with him - he will understand and learn to be a bit softer around you. Hope this helps

I think perhaps I've expressed a desire to change him more than my frustration with how HIS behaviours are really impacting on ME.
I don't want to dictate how I better think he should be living his life, but I am genuinely finding his behaviours are causing much of my anxiety and unease. I've discovered a whole different way of finding calm in my life and it's now become important to me to find the calm so I can be the best mother and person that I can but I genuinely feel that DH is hindering this. I often feel like I'm inside his whirlwind particulalry in the mornings and it's not as easy to zone out and do my own thing when his big voice is bellowing from other rooms when I'm trying to speak calmly and quietly to the children. It affects my wellbeing enormously and I feel on edge and sometimes even in quite a rage. So it's less about me wanting to 'change' him and more about how I can protect myself from his chaotic manner from affecting me so much.
I don't care what time he goes to bed, but I do care when it wakes me and then he lies in bed tossing and turning for 2 hours, phone light on, phone light off, waking me up to ask me to 'move over' etc etc. Im absolutely exhausted. On the nights he goes into the spare bedroom I sleep so much more soundly. It's really not a case of 'ignoring' him and doing my own thing... I am. But what he is doing continually impacts on me.

Poor you OP, I really feel for you. I think as a first step you must insist on him sleeping in the spare room so you can start getting a good night’s sleep every night undisturbed by his phone and restlessness. That might also make him realise how serious you are about this. Good luck!

After reading your message, am starting to think you should sleep in a spare room. If you have voiced your concerns clearly to him and he still won't change his behaviour then drastic action is needed.

You can't change him but you can and should say that where his behaviour negatively effects you then you will instigate measures to negate their effect. The spare room is a compromise and the price you both you pay, for staying together.

Long term, the writings probably on the wall if you can't agree on compromises that satisfy you both. It sounds like life will have to become a lot less convenient for him if he's going to change, necessity being the mother of all invention and all that.

I have a DH with some similar traits.

One thing I did is to implement the rule of no talking to anyone from another room. I couldn't abide the shouting around the house.

Sleep is paramount isn’t it! So much so! How did he take the sleeping separately suggestion? I think if you can go to bed calmly, sleep through and wake up in a calm room you’ll feel so much personal benefit! I’m imagining you emerging at the time you want from your room, doing what suits you/the kids and wafting around his chaos. Maybe far fetched but I always feel I can concur the world when I’ve actually slept properly!

Oh op l do feel for you..YANBU to want a calm environment for your Dcs.

As they get older it will benefit them hugely to have a calm orderred home life rather than a panicked one, especially when they start school.

It does sound like you are miles apart, my Dh and l sufferred hugely when we first married as l don't drink much, need 7 hours unbroken sleep and like a peaceful house.

He was a supper stressed workaholic who went to bed at 2am slept fitfully for a couple of hours, got up, came back and generally was very disruptive, he also liked loud rock music on at a deafening volume!

4 months in l fell asleep at the wheel of my car , in rush hour and almost drove off the hard shoulder into a ditch....it was the wake up call l needed, l could have killed someone or myself.

Since we have had seperate bedrooms for whenever l need to sleep undisturbed, weekends are together, some weeknights we start together but as soon as there is any disruption l am off to the other room.

It has saved our marriage. ( 15 yrs)
if you have the space insist on it, if not make a comfortable bed corner somewhere that will be quiet ( corner of lounge perhaps)

The other things would be intolerable to me, it would be a case of get organised or leave l am afraid as l simply couldn't live in chaos and nor should any child, what about when they need quiet study space..

He needs to understand it is not neccessary to shout, he can come and find you if he needs to speak to you, it is bloody rude too.

Good for you finding the peace we all want!

I too think sleep has such a lot to answer for... I wouldn't mind if it was the DCs keeping me awake as much as DH! I think I know the spare room is going to have to happen but I guess I worry about the impact on our relationship in the long term. Mentioned to DH this morning about the seperate rooms and he has said he plans on coming to bed at the same time as me tonight. This probably means me winding down with a bath before bed, us both reading and then him starting to twitch his feet continually when I'm trying to get to sleep followed by tossing and turning. I am also pregnant but did not want to mention this up thread as the issue is purely about the chaos which drives me to despair when not pregnant, obviously, I'm even more irritated by it atm. With our last DC, DH was adamant that he had to move into his own room at just 10 weeks as DH kept waking him during the night with his shuffling. This is not going to be an option this time and DH will have to leave the room instead as I did not feel comfortable with it.
I feel sorry for DH in a lot of ways as he has become very nervous about waking me during the night and he says this makes him fidget/lie awake even more which I do understand. I think up until recently I adapted to DH's ways and would stay up late, accepted the mess etc, but it does me no good. I feel so much better when well rested, and my home is adequately tidy.

Dragon girl: thanks for your post! Gosh, you really did face the consequences of sleep deprivation didn't you! I'm glad you and DH found a way through... lots of tips here that I think would be useful for us also.

Make it clear to DH why you have changed and what changes you have made.
Explain what is upsetting to you, in his behaviour, and ask him what he can do to improve the situation.
Only offer suggestions if he asks for them or if it's something that you feel absolutely has to change.

Now that you are parents, he needs to take some responsibility for making things work.

I really feel for you OP and I think this is a tricky one to sort out. As you say, he has always been like this, and it's you that has changed, so I think you are going to find him extremely resistant indeed to behaving any differently.

Have you tried to discuss it with him and how did he react? It sounds like you've got a good, clear line of "this is how this behaviour impacts on ME and we need to find a way to resolve that" rather than blaming him.

I also want to say to you not to feel bad or like you "have to" put up with this, since (as before) you're the one who's changed so it's somehow "not fair" to expect him to be different. People are allowed to change throughout their life (think how bizarre and unnatural it would be if you were the same at 65 as you were at 20) and having children is well-known for causing change.

On a practical level, you can't really help it - you have changed and living like this is affecting your mental health. You either need to find a way through this as a couple, or separate, but I don't think just "putting up with it" is even possible. I think you will get very unwell.

On a side note, just reading about the chaos and shouting and flapping and last-minuting makes me feel tense and angry. There is no need for any of it, and I find NT adults who like to live their lives in a whirlwind of drama and panic very boring.

What is causing the constant shuffling, tossing and turning, and poor sleeping? It doesn't seem normal to me. On your side maybe you can think about ear plugs and an eye mask? My partner is a very very light sleeper (sometimes just me turning over in bed wakes him) and I like to read on my phone in bed before falling asleep and plugs and a mask have really helped us to continue sleeping together.

Does he have a medical problem like restless legs or something? Is there something in his lifestyle causing such weird sleep issues (caffeine?)? I am jumping to conclusions like a grasshopper here but your post and the things you say about him made me instantly wonder about a substance abuse issue, which would account for being disorganised and unfocused, struggling to regulate his voice volume, and especially the sleep issues (your description of him sleeping is exactly how people are who are withdrawing from downers like booze, heroin, pain pills etc). Just a thought.

Although it all appealed to you at first you're a mother now and understandably trying to create a healthy environment for your children. Some people aren't well suited to living with others long term, but it's awful it's taken this long for you to realise you can't peacefully cohabitate. How king were you together before moving in and then having children? What did you feel about how he is before it started to annoy you?

I feel for him too, it must be awful feeling like you have to turn aspects of yourself right down because your essence annoys your partner deeply when she seemed to love you for it before. What a mess.

Just sleep in separate rooms. Luckily you have the space and vlearly it would be better for your relationship. It doesn't have to be forever and you can still 'visit' each other :)

If you want to start in the same bed, then set it up so you are the one who can retreat to the other bed halfway through the night, then you will have an escape route whenever you get annoyed.

Agree that you need to build boundaries about the things that affect you, rather than try to change his personality. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with either of your approaches. It may well be good for your dc in the long run to have two slightly different parents whose styles balance each other out.