Can someone give me some bullet points on setting boundaries? My mother! :(

[Oywotchadoin]

I’ve posted about her before under different names but in summary she has narcissistic tendencies. She is very controlling and without doubt thinks she’s right about everything and sees any difference in opinion as a personal slight.

We were NC for over a year but have gradually thawed. And surprise surprise she’s leaping over boundaries like crazy. She does it in such a way that I look like a petty twat if I pull her up yet I feel outmanoeuvred.

I also feel like she deliberately tries to get into competition with me somehow, over my kids and husband. It’s all so subtle though I start to doubt myself and then remember how twisted she can be!

So, quick guide to healthy boundaries please!

Just to add, that when I say that they care how they appear to others - generally speaking and ime, this refers to people they perceive to have some standing. I don't think they care what their targets think.

More thoughts (again, just my experience):

• Don't be fooled when they act like they're the victim when you tackle them about their behaviour. (They're not and they know this.)

• Be prepared for them to start claiming to have some potentially dreadful ailment. (They love this sort of attention. They see medical professionals as 'staff' and sources of status. They love the drama and attention and love playing the victim to get out of being responsible for their actions.)

• Every one I've known, has claimed the same sort of dramatic stuff about dying/not being loved, such as: they want to die, they are probably going to die soon, no one cares etc etc. I've known at least 3 actually state how much time they had left and none of them cared how hurtful this was! (It was all made up.) Just to be clear, according to The Samaritans, people who threaten suicide tend to do it. But, that's not what I'm talking about here. None of these narcs were threatening suicide. This was about drama and attention and manipulation. None of them ever sought professional help after making these statements.

That reminds me... they might talk at length about their issues and how they could seek professional help. But they are unlikely to actually do this. They just like having this sort of conversation - it's a nice bit of drama and they love talking about themselves and getting that fix of attention and they enjoy playing people in this way. It took me quite a while to realise this (ever hopeful!). These days, I shut these conversations down much quicker as they can be so time wasting. If they were intent on seeking help, they're capable of finding someone - they don't need me to spend hours helping them.

This is all so helpful. I sometimes think there’s only me with a parent like this!

So, one of my kids is VERY behind at school despite being very chatty and clearly bright. We and School suspect dyslexia, and he has lots of help. But yesterday my mother visited with a set of oxford reading tree books. As though we haven’t tried! I said that I thought she was underestimating what we were dealing with and she said “he just isn’t getting the right encouragement.” 😡

I said I’d explode if she ever said that again. Then she backtracked but didn’t apologise and intimated that he wasn’t getting the right help. God almighty.

Then same child announces he is going to grandmas tomorrow because they had “made a deal”. Had a talk then about how we only make deals with mummy and daddy.

Why am I even having these conversations?

You are having those conversations because you are giving your mother an audience. This is what such people want, meeting at all with her gives her narcissistic supply which is what she lives for. She is making your child's problems all about her really.

She was not a good parent to you when growing up and is also a poor example of a grandparent to your children as well. I would stay well away from her, also your children do not need her emotional manipulations either. No visits to her from any of you from now on. She is trying to take them away from you as their mother and she cannot be trusted.

Such people like your mother as well never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

That's so true about not apologising. I had one conversation with a narc (diagnosed) family member in which she wanted to know why I hadn't gone to a particular do.

Me: You've never even been nice to me.

Her: I know.

(Me thinking, "OMG!! She's finally acknowledging it!!! This is huge!!")

Her: I could apologise... but I wouldn't mean it... and I don't want to. All I can do is show you how I've changed moving forwards.

Lasted about a day.

Ime, they would rather lie to the whole family, painting themselves as the victim, than admit any wrong doing, even when they are completely in the wrong.

Something else I've noticed is that they're all indiscrete. Eg. They would all leave their knickers out for me to see, without any care at all (probably think they're doing me a favour). And they could never be trusted to keep my secrets or respect my privacy. In fact, they're the last people you'd want to know anything private about you because they will gossip about you and talk you down as much as it suits them (to make themselves look more powerful or interesting).

Why am I even having these conversations?

(Assuming she's a narcissist, which I can't know...)
She doesn't recognise your boundaries.
She doesn't respect your choices.
Your feelings are inconsequential to her.
If she asks your opinion on something, you might be fooled into thinking she's then going to take what you've said into account, but the fact is, she's data gathering for her own purposes.

Thought of another one! (I'm on a roll!) All the ones I know have a tendancy to play up on special days. They seem to want everything to be ALL about them. If I was going to invite them to something, I wouldn't rely on them in any way. They are all likely to be difficult in the run-up to the event (eg. threaten not to come or let a surprise out of the bag), to cancel last minute (usually with a made-up reason) or otherwise try to ruin the occasion with their bad behaviour.

Re special occasions, she ALWAYS goes odd, but not in a All About Me way, she gets over involved in the delivery - messing with the buffet, refusing to come out of the kitchen, last minute errands which aren’t necessary etc, but in any event, not present. It’s like she can’t cope so goes to fuss over something she can control.

She’s cancelled at the very last minute so many times I have given up making arrangements unless it’s within the hour or it’s her making them. She doesn’t just do this to me, I’ve had her friends and sisters crying to me over the same thing.

God, SandandSea you are describing my dad. He throws a tantrum on other people's birthdays and every mother's day. And knickers are always on show in their house. And body parts.

Wow this is a really interesting thread.
I have been the sitting target for a family member with all these types of behaviour.
My anxiety goes off the scale when I have to interact with them but on the outside I remain calm and quiet.
Absolutely everything is always about them, no matter what!
They suck the emotional life out of you

Honestly there is no "winning" with a narc. You "win" by taking away their supply - you.

Atilla I know you think I should just cut off but I don’t feel able.

It’s such low level attrition. Exhausting and yet in every example I’m painted as unreasonable.

Oops pressed post too soon. Just boundary pushing - like taking my daughter out for a walk so I could have a bath when she was tiny. Asked for her to be back for 3 as she would need a feed, but she didn’t come back till 20 past by which time my new mum hormones were going mad and I was pouring milk. And yet “sorry, I got chatting, it’s only 20 minutes” and I’m the unreasonable one.

Giving DS the pin on my phone (she knew it because I always use my birthday, which we share) so I find him messing with my phone watching YouTube! She said she gave it to him so he could look for a picture of a minion which they were drawing. (Again I was in the bath.)

That sort of thing. I feel petty yet enraged.

"Atilla I know you think I should just cut off but I don’t feel able"

Why do you not feel able to do that?. Is this out of a combination of your own fear, obligation and guilt?.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not so why is your mother any different. She is not.

Again the examples you gave show your mother ignoring any boundaries you care to set her. She had no right at all to give your son your phone at all. And please use a different pin code for your phone if you have not already changed it. If your mother can too easily guess this it is not a 4 digit code you should ever use.

She shouldn't be allowed to be alone with your child. Ever. She isn't a safe person. That needs to be a boundary that is 100% or your mother will use your child to play games with you. She'll also mess with his head. Talk to your husband about it and make sure he understands.

I found the book "Toxic Parents" very helpful. A phrase that I used a lot was, "I can see how you would feel that way, none the less, this is what I've decided to do." And I just kept repeating it without getting drawn into my reasons for things. I didn't negotiate or debate.