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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sad about the present, scared for the future. Not a great start to 2018...

50 replies

Ennirem · 01/01/2018 04:01

I've been with my partner for coming up 10 years, living together for 9, we have a baby daughter who's nearly one (OH and I both 33). And I feel like I need to end it but I just can't imagine what my life and my daughter's life looks like afterwards Sad

We have always had s difficult relationship for various reasons, it's been hard to apportion blame - we were both young and a bit damaged. But there was a lot of love and a lot of good times too. I felt like we were in a very good place before we had our baby.

However, when I look at our relationship in the round, I realise it is potentially borderline abusive. Is it possible for someone to be unintentionally abusive? I really don't think he's a bad man at all; but I look at who I was when we started out and who I am now and i can't believe we got here from there. And the uncomfortable truth is I have changed incrementally from a passionate, interesting, outgoing person who was often impulsive and spontaneous and had an active social life to someone who is stunted, has no conversation, whose social life barely changed when I had a baby as I had grown so isolated, and who lives their life according to a rigid routine set by someone else according to their desire for control. In scared to deviate from it to the smallest degree, to the point I wear clothes I think are dirty so I don't create too much washing and upset the laundry schedule, I never deviate from the pre planned weekly menu even if I just fancy something different on the day, he shopping always has to be done on the same day every week to the point I'll turn down meeting up with friends if it comes up on that day, I spend my life nervous wondering what I'll do or what will happen to throw out the schedule and provoke huge stress, sulking or anger on my partner's part.

I just don't understand how or why I allowed this to happen. My partner when we first got together was very insecure. I was only how second relationship, whereas I had more previous partners and sexual experience. I had also travelled independently and had close friends I liked to see without him, and was social at work so liked to do drinks with colleagues etc. It emerged in dribs and drabs that all these things bothered him and caused problems. Im going to give some examples below as I'm worried I just don't know my own mind any more or what is my fault and what is just unreasonable...

Our first row blew up out of nowhere really early on in the relationship (we'd been friends for years before and never argued) when I was merrily chatting away about something that has happened to me when I was travelling and he got angry because I was"going on about it" and it made him feel inadequate. I felt so embarrassed and apologetic at the time. But I couldn't apologise enough to stop him being sullen the rest of the night. Now looking back I see how unreasonable that was. I went to a prestigious uni to do a master's degree shortly after we got together. We had a long distance relationship, but he would complain if we didn't see each other every weekend, and when he came to me he wouldn't engage with my new friends because they "made him feel stupid"; we were meant to go to a college dinner one evening with my friends and he bailed out on the doorstep so I didn't go, and we looked really odd in front of my friends. I'd been looking forward to it so much.

Shortly after I moved cities to live with him, I finally got a job and excitedly told him the salary which was higher than I'd been hoping for - he wasn't happy for me or for us, he was angry because it was higher than he had thus far been able to earn since uni. I remember still how much his reaction surprised and hurt me, years later. He'd get sulky if I wanted to go out with just my best friend or mother without him, saying he'd be bored and not understanding why I wouldn't want him there. He'd sulk horribly if I ever stayed put later than I'd planned to. It got so stressful that I'd do these things less and less, I got sort of absorbed into his group of friends. When we went out together, I talked less about things I had done that he hadn't like sex and travel. I watched what I said trying to avoid his sulks, which I could feel across a room if I forgot myself and started yammering away to someone else and he could hear me. I sort of diminished myself so as not to overshadow him. Which sounds really arrogant, but it's the only way I can explain it. And it became habit. And I became duller and duller. I'd clock watch at work things and leave before I wanted to as the later I was the more withdrawn he'd be by the time I got home. I hated feeling like I was making him miserable. I became hypersensitive to his mood in groups, and be very tense when I knew he was getting cross/upset due to feeling inadequate. I became very anxious around going out. Everything always had to go according to plan - his plan - or he'd get stressed out out of all proportion.

I was no saint through all this I hasten to add. We were in our twenties and drank a lot, I'd occasionally use booze as an outlet to release the accumulated stress, or if something happened on a night out to 'set him off' sulking/stressing (a bus not arriving, say, or the conversation "excluding" him by turning towards something he wasn't interested/experienced/knowledgeable in) I'd get very stressed and not handle it well at all and we'd have big messy drunken rows. In the couple of years before we had our daughter I recognised this was not helping things and stopped getting drunk by and large. It made it easier to manage his moods and my responses to them, and things improved between us. Also while this was happening, he was advancing in his career, his social confidence was improving, and he was far less dependent on me for company and socialising. I though all this was great as it took some of the pressure off. Our home life got ever more regimented - or 'organised', I suppose - and I went along with his 'efficiency' because my own instincts were far more scarry and "things will sort themselves out" so I didn't really have an alternative regime to stick to as it were. It was easier to do things his way as it mattered to him so much more how things were done, and I didn't really have a "my way" to counter with. And it was effective! Our lives ran like a well oiled machine, we saved money, bought a flat. He became less and less tolerant of anything that disturbed his environment (we had a neighbour with kids in the flat and the stress and animosity over their noise in the evening was dreadful) but we had a plan to sell up and move somewhere we could afford a nicer area and a bigger home; his argument when I spoke to him about having to learn to handle his stress better was that if he could just avoid/eliminate the stressors everything would be ok. But of course there were always those things beyond his control (like traffic, or the neighbors) he couldn't do anything about, and that always led to big problems. However, things were better than when we were younger (in the sense he was by and large happier) and our lives were moving towards objectively sensible goals. We felt "mature" compared to many of our friends of the same age. And eventually we felt ready for a baby.

However since having the baby I feel like I've woken up from a strange fuzzy state where all this drift has been happening without me really reacting to it, and woken up in the middle of a life I don't recognise. Behaviour I had just been tolerating or managing (temper tantrums over minor inconveniences, total rigid adherence to arbitrary domestic routines) when I see it in the context of how it affects and will go on to affect her, seem suddenly completely intolerable. And his need to control and dictate his environment meeting the chaos that is a small baby is just a match made in hell.

All this has been brewing for a while and we've had lots of circular one-sided discussions about it (his mode when I confront him on anything is either to go mute - lots of dunnos and no to any questions as I try to establish solutions and boundaries - or to blow up and shout at me, which he knows I hate, especially in front of the baby who is scared by it.

Major incidents since baby was born:

We were driving to look at houses in the city we have now moved to - baby was crying in the car seat, we were stuck in traffic and were a bit lost. He shouted at the baby to shut up, so loudly she flinched (she was about 7 months old at the time). After we had moved, I came down from the shower one morning as he was looking after her and overheard him telling her she was a 'horrible baby" (she was crying and had been going through a big phase of crying at the time). I confronted him on each of these issues, and explained to him it was a deal breaker if he didn't treat our daughter with gentleness and respect always. I asked if he would agree to some CBT to help manage his response to stress. He agreed in theory but never did anything about it. Things got better for a month or so, then slowly deteriorated.

All came to a head over Christmas when we were driving to see family. We got stuck in traffic and couldn't find a service station when he needed to pee. He got more and more angry and stressed and eventually had to pull over on the hard shoulder as he was having a full on panic attack. I asked him to please calm down as he was scaring me and the baby. We got into an argument and he SCREAMED at me, terrifying the baby who went hysterical. I begged him now to please stop, or to get out of the car, and reiterated he was upsetting her. He called me a cunt and a bitch. Eventually he got out of the car and I calmed the baby down. I could feel he was on a knife edge so didn't confront him at all until we got safely to our destination. When we did discuss it he told me it wouldn't have escalated if I had been more sympathetic; he has said similar before when I've told him not to shout at me - says if I handled things differently he wouldn't shout. I am well aware this is classic abuser's language. I tried to make him see this, that he can't make me or the world responsible for his emotional stability, he needs coping mechanisms etc. His answer was that it never would have happened if we'd got off at an earlier service station. As if that answers the issue of what about the next time something happens that we hadn't foreseen. He seems to make no acknowledgment of how scary it would have been for baby or how serious that is.

Since then I've just been going through the motions but I know something has to change. I grew up around shouting and anger and I WILL NOT have that for my baby. I need to have a conversation with him where I make this plain; I want us to go to Relate together to see if we can make any progress, and for him to get counselling/therapy separately. But I'm not sure any of that can help while he is only doing it to avoid a breakup,and doesn't actually accept he has a problem. I feel at the moment realistically I'm going to have to leave him. Which breaks my heart (I'm from a broken home and wanted so much better for my little one Sad ).

More practically: i'm currently on mat leave. We've just moved to a different city where I'll need to find a new job. We have no family here, and few friends. I would have some money as we have the proceeds of the sale of the flat in savings (enough for a deposit on a small house, we're currently renting) but no support network and (currently) no job. Baby is struggling with settling in to nursery and doesn't really like any caregiver but me or daddy, and sleeps really badly. I'm nervous about separating and access as I don't really want him to care for her alone given his stress responses.

As it stands on paper we have a "nice" life. If I leave baby and I will really struggle to make ends meet, even assuming I can find a job. And living in this city doesn't really make any sense as we moved her for his new job - none of my people are here. So would we move away from him? I just can't see what life would hold for us going forward, or what steps I ought to take to prepare for it. I feel instinctively it would be better overall for her not to grow up around anger and tension, walking on eggshells. And the thought of not having to constantly accommodate his rigidity and manage his feelings as well as my own tastes like freedom at the moment. But at other times I worry she needs her dad, he is great with her 90% of the time, and we can give her so much more as a family than I can by myself. I feel so conflicted and confused.

I don't know what I want from this. Just to outline it all possibly, to ease my mind a little. But ant advice or hand holding would be hugely appreciated!

OP posts:
Offred · 01/01/2018 10:56

Leave him and express your concerns re the abuse he has directed towards you and the baby to social care.

Ennirem · 01/01/2018 11:01

I just don't have anywhere I think of as home, nowhere where more than one or two people I love are, no-one I can imagine building a life around. In a way I suppose it's very freeing, but right now it just feels scary...

I think near my sister would be most sensible, but I'm not too fussed about that part of the country and it's expensive.. I'm not in a high earning profession and there aren't huge job opportunities...

I guess I need to work out my notice at my current work from home as planned then find a new job. Then I'd know where I needed to be. But if I leave straight away while I'm in such a weird position work wise I feel like I'd be thrown into chaos a bit... But I don't like to think of myself of just using him.

Does anyone think there's any mileage in seeking couples counselling, or am I just kidding myself? I think if I take of him it was that or me leaving he'd do it... Living alone is his worst nightmare (which I don't get as then he could have everything just as he wants it, but he hates the idea of it!)

OP posts:
Offred · 01/01/2018 11:07

He’s abusive and controlling. He will just use the joint counselling to further abuse and control you.

Mightybanhammer · 01/01/2018 11:09

Oh OP.
My mother was like this and it wrecked my childhood. In her case it was aspergers and ocd. Screw your courage to the sticking place and make the changes you need to make.
You write absolutely brilliantly by the way. Perhaps journaling would help you cope in the meantime ?

Ennirem · 01/01/2018 13:08

Thank youMighty. Writing was one of the things I used to do when I was me... Maybe I'll get back to it again, this has been therapeutic just expressing myself completely honestly without second guessing how it's going to be received.

OP posts:
IloveJudgeJudy · 01/01/2018 13:46

OP, staying and sorting things out before you leave wouldn't be using your partner; it would be doing the best for your DC.

I agree with other posters, don't stay any longer than you absolutely have to. My father was not nice. My mother should have left him. She didn't and the repercussions still resound today. He'd be happy to see how much havoc he wreaked.

princesssparkle1 · 01/01/2018 13:52

@Ennirem - your lovely baby has shown you what you have to do. Without her you might never have seen so clearly how terrible this man is. Please leave. Be safe and work your life out one day at a time. Lots and lots of love 💕

Capelin · 01/01/2018 14:00

When it’s hard to remember why you have to leave, keep repeating the sentence in your OP - you WILL NOT have this for your baby. You’re doing this for her, OP.

Please believe me when I say that couples counselling will barely scratch the surface when it comes to the kind of behaviour you’ve described in your OP.

Capelin · 01/01/2018 14:01

Couples counselling is good for people who basically have a good relationship but need to iron out a few areas of conflict. Not a situation when you are married to an abusive, controlling twat.

Cricrichan · 01/01/2018 14:26

You're so young and you have your whole life ahead of you. Having your daughter has probably saved you from wasting more time on him. Definitely leave him and do it in a way that works for you. I would also contact social services because I wouldn't want him to have unsupervised contact with your child. I'd be scared of her emotional and physical well-being if he behaves like that when you're there can you imagine what he'd be capable of when you're not?

Lightningbolt82 · 01/01/2018 17:25

I have been thinking a lot about this today...... It has brought back all kinds of memories. Have you looked into part buy schemes? Might be worth having a look. The hardest thing will be to find a home which is your own whether that be renting or buying. Obviously ideally you don't want to spend your money on rent. When you have a sum like that it would be better to purchase. Can you grin and bare your sister's house while you research? It doesn't matter where you move to if you have a job. You make connections through nursery/playgroups/work/neighbors. I wish I could help more. I just really think your situation sounds bad like mine was. Honestly you can manage on your own especially if you are in employment. As a single parent you will be entitled to all kinds of benefits. Again research and go to citizens advice. Please update us on how you are getting on!

Ennirem · 05/01/2018 21:24

Hello kind people of Mumsnet. I really appreciated all your advice and support. Still haven't taken any action but I'm more and more convinced what I have to do. Have started looking into he practicalities a bit more. I think if I can find a job that pays around what my current job does I can afford to rent a decent home for me and baby in our new city without eating into my capital (assuming other half paid maintenance, which would cover the cost of childcare). I feel like I would probably stay in this city purely for want of anywhere else to go where I feel drawn to - is that a bit mad? But it would I suppose be easier if we are closer to her dad, then in terms of access we could stick to regular overnights rather than extended periods away from me (hopefully that would limit how much stress could accumulate during access). I could also be close for him to call on if things weren't going well and he wasn't coping.

Things have been ...as usual really. Nothing particularly has happened to stiffen my resolve, and I'm surprised I'm not just sort of lapsing back into tolerance of the situation as I have so many times before. It's like something has finally fundamentally broken in me that allowed me to love him.

All I feel from him is contempt, irritation, dislike. He's only ever affectionate towards me if he wants sex, and when I avoid it he withdraws and sulks. This sort of thing used to make me feel bad about myself, make me think I must be unlikeable, lazy, uninteresting, unattractive, not giving enough. I'd make plans to start afresh, to try and read more or do something impressive or be more proactive around the home or do exercise or initiate sex more often. Now I just feel...not that all those things aren't true exactly, but that if they are I don't actually care any more about fixing it to win his approval so I can hang onto this relationship and make it more bearable. Fucking 'bearable' should not be what I'm aiming at!

I'm in two minds whether to tell him right now while I still have my current job or wait a few months until I have another one. What I don't want is to get caught in between so I won't have the money so won't be able to get a rental (last rental application we made was like getting a mortgage, they asked for employment refs,salaries etc so I have to have a job when I apply...) But I also don't want to get tied into a rental then when my job comes to an end in mid April not have anything new lined up...

Also really don't want to have the conversation. I can't think of any way of doing it which doesn't sound heartless but doesn't leave me open to being talked out of it. Although he may not try to talk me out of it! Part of me is really hoping he will be as relieved as me, that he too is tired of living with someone who doesn't make him happy, that he will see it as an opportunity to have he life be wants and to spend quality rather than quantity time with our daughter and enjoy her more. I feel like that really is what would be best for us all. But I'm worried he'll see it as a failure, like going backwards, and resist it on that basis. He hates it when plans have to change and he's planned how our life will go from here. This wasn't it.

No point to this post really, sat up on my bed after a tetchy evening thinking I ought to go downstairs and make nice but I just. Can't. Be bothered. It's such an uphill struggle making conversation with him, trying to keep things going and steer away from the hidden conversational jellyfish. I'm just too tired and too likely to say something I'll regret. Wish we had a spare room, I'm half tempted to go and doss down on he baby's floor,but we haven't even had a proper row, it would seem so odd.

Feels weird to suddenly not care about what he's thinking,if he's annoyed etc. To just be done emotionally with it,to feel nothing but slight exasperation rather than stressed like hell. It's giving me an idea what it migjt be like once we're apart...

OP posts:
Capelin · 06/01/2018 05:39

Well done OP. You have taken the first huge leap by stopping bein the emotional caretaker for the relationship. This will allow you to view his behaviour more dispassionately and start making practical plans. Good luck Flowers

TheSquashyHatOfMrGnosspelius · 06/01/2018 09:05

You talk of failure but failure here would be if you stay.
If you don't want to have 'the conversation' with him, don't. You would be a fool to in my opinion as he would escalate. Make the arrangements and move out. Speak to him over the phone or email him. You don't have to be unpleasant. Be a little robotic or grey rock maybe. Spell it out that you are leaving because his behaviour is not compatible with raising a child and for your own happiness and then don't engage beyond what you have to. You really have to try and shut down within yourself the urge to explain, make nice and justify yourself. Just do whatever you have to do to get out. Once it's all settled you can breathe and OMG! How amazing will that feel?

Worriedrose · 06/01/2018 09:31

You don't need to have any conversation
You leave and present it as a fait accompli after you're out.

You're spending too much time worrying about how he will react,how he will feel, what's best for him.
Just forget about him for the moment, this is all about you. Do YOU want to live in your current city ?

Do you want to go back to London, could you go back to your old job?

There are plenty of places you can rent temporarily before you make any long term decisions.

And remember first and foremost, you're a highly intelligent women who has done a masters and I presume had a decent job and lots of friends, that person still exists and that person is not a failure.

It's so very easy to get trapped in a relationship like this, especially when you can't exactly pin point things, it's just a slow drip drip, where, as you say, you diminish yourself, you start living by their rules, just because it's easier that dealing with the fallout.

You have done nothing wrong, but you 100% cannot go to counselling with this man, it simply won't work, you'll just come out thinking you have to try harder!!! Trust me I know.

Think very hard what you would like your life to look like in 5 years time, filled with a good job? Interesting colleagues? Great friends? A happy bubbly dc?

Or living a life walking on eggshells, worried that he'll sulk or be annoyed or angry? So no friends because it's too hard to see them, no nice job, because you had to get the only one that fitted around his needs, an anxious dc, because she can pick up on the abuse that's happening?

5 years, you will only be 38

And again, you are not a failure.

Worriedrose · 06/01/2018 09:36

Also the day you leave I suggest you take 5-10k out of the bank as your buffer/emergency fund. Don't think of it solely as a deposit for a new house, you need to think about right now. And getting through that.

do not expect him to be reasonable, he could block the money easily, and for a long time and you're not working. You might have to pay rent until you've got a job etc. Be under no illusion that you'll walk out and he will help you and be kind about it.

Newrules · 06/01/2018 10:26

Can you stay in your current job and live close to there? It seems like madness to give up a steady job and a relationship at the same time. You are not tied to a particular area so may as well be in the one where you have work. I don't know what you do for a living but how easy would it be to find another job?

Ennirem · 06/01/2018 10:47

The job is in London, can't afford any standard of life there as a single parent,would never be able to buy. Also hate my job! And I have no close friends or family in London except my brother who is 24 and just starting out in life. London doesn't have anything for me really.

OP posts:
Ennirem · 06/01/2018 10:47

I actually moved there to live with him, afainsty better judgment as I much prefer smaller cities!

OP posts:
Ennirem · 06/01/2018 10:49

I'm not too fussy about what i do really. I ahve a profession which means I can get jobs in universities, public and healthcare sector (sorry to be vague) but I'm not really career minded - as long as a job allows me to work with nice people and finish on time, and pays enough to keep body and soul together, I'll take it!

OP posts:
helpimgoingcrazyhere · 06/01/2018 11:01

Your situation sounds awful OP. I’m leaving an angry, miserable man. We are in the process of selling our house and buying new places to live. My husband would have outbursts of rage and anger and just generally affected the whole sorry mood of the house. I just decided that I would be happier living without the stress even if life would likely be a financial struggle. I found gingerbread were a great source of advice when I called to ask about benefit entitlements with a range of scenarios. And helped me have faith that if I needed to move into rented whilst we sold, it would be tight but possible. I’m house sitting at the moment and it’s like a weight has been lifted just even tone temporarily out of the situation.

Huntinginthedark · 06/01/2018 11:19

I think living with your sister would be a good idea even if it's only for a couple of months to get you back on your feet
Leave any big life decisions for a little while.

Porpoises · 06/01/2018 11:25

Is there a town where you have a few friends in the area, with decent job opportunities?

I think if you start getting back in touch with old friends, many would be delighted to 'have you back'.

lynmilne65 · 06/01/2018 11:35

Very long post,you are obviously intelligent and know the answer!

ButtPlugInMyHalloweenHaul · 06/01/2018 13:57

I have experience of living with a man who behaved in a similar way to yours. My own personality was gradually crushed and I realised the whole time I was with him was spent twisting myself into shapes trying to keep him happy and not set him off. The more I did this the more crazy and demanding he became. I flatly refused to indulge his whim over something ridiculous and he strangled me until I blacked out. I left afterwards but not immediately as if I had let on that I was done he would have escalated for sure. I became compliant until I could leave but I did so at the first opportunity. I felt all at sea at first because I had become a created creature if you will and it took me a long time to find my personality buried under layers of learned fear, guilt etc. I was the classic boiled frog. He wasn't like it around other people though so it was deliberate and targeted and designed to support his skewed view of the world. Get out safely and engage minimally is my advice.

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