reluctant father

[skidaddle]

A friend of mine married her husband on the understanding that they were not going to have any children but now realises that she really wants a baby. her husband is being very understanding and has agreed to having a baby at some point but is obviously nervous/reluctant about the prospect of being a father and particularly what it would mean for their relationship and their plans for the future.

My friend would love to have a baby sooner rather than later - can she help her husband to adjust to the idea without forcing him? Or should she even try? Does anyone have experience of something similar?

was it an understanding (ie she assumed he wanted the same things) or did they have a full and frank discussion before they got married.

yes they discussed it at length - he really didn't want children and she agreed this would be fine. However, they always acknowledged that she may one day change her mind (as predicted by everyone who knows her) and if she did change her mind, they would take it from there. He promised her that he would never leave her over it. But obviously it's a huge adjustment for him to make now it's happened

eek - this is hard. Basically he has been clear - he doesn't want kids - your friend married him and i bet she thought deep down he would change his mind but of course he hasn;t. I know two couples who are adamant they don't want kids - they both wanted the same thing from the start ....

Hello, I'm the friend!

I think I have certainly been in denial about my own maternal desires. But also I really hoped and thought that I could overcome them for the sake of my relationship.

blardy hell! I am thick ... wow - don't know what to say - what advice would you give someone who was asking you this question. You shouldn't have to suppress your maternal desires - if you were to get PG how do you think your DH would cope??

Sorry, I should explain. Skidaddle is my office-mate who posted the first two messages on my behalf, as I'm not a mumsnet member.

I am Sue, the friend in question, now taking over the postings because Skidaddle is doing proper work.

I think DH just needs to be involved at every stage and particularly needs time to get used to the idea of being a parent. But I'm afraid this could go on for ages, plus now that I've acknowledged my desire to be a mother I am struggling to be patient.

Hi there. Well I was in a similar position to you. I always said I didn't want children. But then I did. We were married 8 years before we had DD. In that time I did a masters degree, moved house, and moved us overseas, which looking back on it now I see largely as displacement activity because I wanted a baby and DH didn't. Eventually I think I sort of wore him down and he realised how strong the maternal urge is - and yet not something you can really put into words. I have to say, that it was not easy. In the first few years, DH basically was in denial about being a father, he found the sleepless nights etc VERY hard and I was more or less left to do everything myself. He went out a lot, drinking, and pretty much continued the life of a man without kids - I felt very alone. We were living abroad with no family nearby and looking back on it now I am sure I had PND but didn't acknowledge at the time. DD1 was a very demanding baby, colicky etc and very high needs. DH found this very hard to deal with and his respone was basically to withdraw from family life. He was also suffering from depression and was having a hard time at work, so it was not all about being a father, but it certainly did not help. There were a few occasions when I almost left him, but didn't. I guess I thought that it was worth hanging in there for. In fact as DD got older and he could interact with her more, he did find it easier. I think small babies are harder for men, in general - at least with older children you can "do" things with them i.e take them swimming, to the park, reading etc. DH also stunned me by being the most amazing birth partner, and was really supportive towards me when I was having difficulty breastfeeding. 5 years on and we now have two DD's and DH is a fantastic father, very much hands on, and we have moved back to the UK so have more family support. We also got (paid) help with the housework etc to take more pressure off me when DD2 was small. I also got a part time job (doula) which was a sanity saver for me, and DH now works at home so he has a much closer bond with the girls, I think that as their relationship has strengthened so he sees the up sides of having children more and more. But deep down I know it was not his choice. And when times are tough that is always there.

What I would say, is that if you are really keen on children and he is not so keen, then it's really important to talk about your expectations. For example what sort of father do you expect him to be? How will you cope if he does not want to play an active role? What would his expectations be? E.g I am okay with my DH having the occasional "lads" weekend away because I feel he needs that down time and release. I know not all women will be happy with this. But essentially the more you can talk now, the better, even though you can never be prepared for the reality of having children. I'd suggest that professional counselling can even be worth considering, just to really help you both explore your feelings before bringing a little person into the world.

It is true that, as a baby grows up and kind of becomes more interesting then many a man becomes more of a doting daddy. But not always. You know what sort of a bloke your DH is better than I do: is he patient? Helpful? Prepared to discuss things rather than wigging out and throwing things? Are his reasons for not wanting children due to him wanting to do other things with his life (travel, work, party) or because he's got issues about his own childhood?

He does sound like someone who's prepared to discuss the matter at least, and even may be prepared to give parenthood a go. but the bottom line is, probably, that you might find yourself a single parent at some point. How do you feel about that?
(NB I'm not saying you need to answer all these questions on line cos none of it's really my business, they're just stuff to think about)

Thank you! I'm glad your story has a happy ending!

We have talked about the type of father DH would be and the type of parents we would be together. but as you say, the reality is hard to prepare for and I feel I can't promise him that we will have a happy, easy baby.

I think he's scared of getting it wrong but also, even more scared of how it will affect us as a couple.

having a baby can affect even the strongest relationship and shake it up badly - that is why you both have to want to go for it - you may say now "i will do all the night feeds/change all the nappies" as you will feel it will take the pressure of him but i don't think that is a realistic way of approaching this situation ....

taylormama,
I agree, I won't promise to do everything and if we're going to have a child we need to share childcare, including the nasty bits (night-time, nappies).

But what about the distribution of affection? can I reasonably promise that I'll always love him the way I do now? Will I have the energy to devote to our relationship as a couple as well as to our child?

Madamez,
Thank you and I suppose single parenthood is the worst case scenario. I don't think it'll come to that, I just want to help DH focus on the positives of parenthood. He is definitely caring, helpful. A wonderful husband and would be a superb father.

"can I reasonably promise that I'll always love him the way I do now?"

To be honest no you can't, but if you don't have kids, would this be a reasonable promise? Feelings change over time, relationships change - kids change the mix, but either way you can't keep your feelings constant.

"Will I have the energy to devote to our relationship as a couple as well as to our child?" No, sorry but you won't. You simply won't. You can make time for "couple time" and things like that but at the end of the day you will be a Mum, and that will change things.

Not trying to be negative, but more realistic. On the upside, perhaps being parents will enrich and strengthen your relationship, and you will see strengths in each other you had not seen before e.g my DH is a very calming person, and I had not really appreciated that before!

But I just think that realistically it tends to be be children first and relationship second - at least for the first few years.

He sounds like a nice man, and am sure that he would be a good dad. It's good that you are already talking about things - but don't underestimate what hard work babies are and how much time and energy they absorb!

hi,

Perhaps i can give a perspective from the other side of the fence, as a similarly "reluctant dad".

Prior to marrying my DW, we had "the chat" about kids - i wasn't particularly keen (to say the least), however DW basically said that if I was absolutely sure I didn't want kids, then our relationship was over, so that she could find a man who did... Faced with that ultimatum, I agreed. (and more or less tried not to think about it)

What helped me get my head around it was trying to examine why I wasn't keen on kids, and what I could do about it. Reading a lot of books was (mostly) helpful for this. In the end these were the things I was worried about:

Financial responsibility - aka growing up (a real, and underestimated issue for a lot of men, but we were fortunate enough to have anough cash that it probably wasn't going to kill us).

Baby yuck - poo, vomit, nappy changes etc. (really not a big deal in the end run)

Change of lifestyle (not a huge one again - me and DW were/are homebodies much of the time - though I did have a huge lads holiday prior to the birth to get a last big blowout in)

Change of relationship with DW (this was the biggie. And as yesireallycan says, there is no way round it - for anywhere between 1 month and a couple of years your relationship will be treading water. But the good news, is that unlike most other things, this is something you can do something about)

The three best books for help I found were:
babyshock (from relate)
life after birth (kate figes)
baby proofing your marriage

The worst one were: pretty much any fatherhood book. (Oh no, we couldn't possibly talk seriously about how kids affect our relationship/sex life, etc, no, n, we're men, so we'll joke about it. feh)

So the advise I would give to your DH would be:

(a) try and examine why you don't want kids - some of the reasons can be resolved, some just have to be lived with.
(b) get involved. right from the start. If you are just a bystander, you will just feel (more) excluded. If you are involved, it will become more of a "joint project"
(c) be prepared to feel utterly excluded and a fifth wheel after the birth. these are pretty normal feelings.
(d) for gods sake don't do anything stupid because of those feelings.
(e) talk, talk, talk. Keeping the lines of communication open is critical, esp in the case where one partner is reluctant.
(f) talk privately to male friends with kids. they will likely tell you how much the change has made them happier.
(g) go to the antenatal class. go to the antenatal class. go to the antenatal class.
(h) decide (the two of you) what "little things" are important to the two of you as a couple. Do your utmost to keep those up - even in the darkest sleep deprived days.
(i) as a man, for a lot of reason the bad bits (and there are plenty) of kids are easier to visualise that the "good bits". and tbh, if you can't visualise them now, then you will just have to take peoples word for it!
(j) you wont really "get it wrong" as far as looking after babies go. really. and tbh the whole process just happens (admittedly with a lot of work).
(k) More seriously, after you have examined your reasons why you dont want kids, be honest with yourself. If you truly don't want them (and it's ok not to), you owe it to all concerned to say so. Yes that will mean you and your DW choosing between kids and your marriage. Which sucks. but it's better than having a child which is unwanted.

Summarising: If your DH is worried about your relationship, the bad news is he should be - it will change completely, and not always for the better. But the good news is that there is many things you can do about it. And in time, you will likely see that it has changed your relationship massively for the better.

(apologies for long rambling post)

Dear Selfish man,

That's an incredibly useful post - thank you. I will print out your list and show it to DH if you don't mind?

The books sound great too - he is a bookish man already so I hope will feel comforted by independent advice in a friendly format.

Our relationship, and his reasons as I understand them, sound really similar to yours. I think fore-warned is fore-armed so facing up to changes in our relationship and perhaps embracing them (positive move from couple to family) will hopefully make the changes easier for both of us to handle.

Thanks!

skidaddle/skidaddle's friend - please feel free to pass this one, your DH may find it is usefulto know he's not the only one - and at least he is biting the bullet, rather than the awfully common "we'll wait a(nother) year, i'm not ready yet." Sometimes, the issue just needs to be forced.

Wrt the relationsip changes - forewarned is definitely forearmed - i think the shock of the change is as disruptive to relationships as the change itself. There is a thread in this forum "surprising reaction to pregnancy news" from a woman who is pregnant and worrying about how her relationship will change.

Your DH may find it's helpful to browse the childcare section through various books to find one who's style he likes. Tbh, most books, even if the annoy the hell out of you have some useful bits.

A few more thoughts I had on the train ride into work:

(l) In the first few months you will be absolutely convinced that you hate each other at times - it does pass.
(m) during these times you WILL use the phrase "well you wanted this baby, not me!"
(n) probably expect having to do some grovelling after this (I recommend the useful hint in BPYM - nothing you/your partner say in the first 3 months can be used against them afterwards)
(o) go to the birth (unless DW doesnt want you there)
(p) before the birth talk about what sort of parenting you would like to use - crying/sleep training, BFing, routines vs AP, etc, etc. See if you can get some sort of united front on this.
(q) do expect some of this to go out the window when the rubber hits the road so to speak. your baby may not agree with your plans. And those baby drugs are impressive stuff.
(r) Dont have an affair. No matter how shit things get (and they will be at times), if you love each other, and are willing/able to keep talking, things will get better. And better. And then you wouldn't give it up for anything.