How to fix a total mess of a marriage

[TheSameOldRut]

I'm not sure if I like my DH anymore. I haven't loved him for quite a few years now. We've been together for 11 years and have three very young dcs. We both changed when we had children. I've been very focused on the children, neurotic, clingy (with the children) and probably pretty boring. DH became grumpy, sarcastic and critical and our relationship has gotten worse and worse. If we didn't have children I would have left years ago. But then would things have been like this if we hadn't had children?

Last year for the first time I started considering leaving. We were about to buy a big, fancy house but whilst on Rightmove I was looking at properties I could have rented or bought on my own. There was nothing even remotely nice. I would have children that would be miserable and totally distraught from the divorce (family is everything to them at the moment), DH would sink into depression plus I would be forced to be away from my children regularly when at the moment I won't even leave them for one night. I pictured myself sitting alone in a grim, damp, cold house. All my friends have their families so wouldn't be up for doing much. I'd have no money and I'd be really lonely. Is it really that much worse staying in an unhappy marriage?

I feel like only two options are always portrayed.. and if you happen to be in a marriage where your DH has become a knob why would the only possible option have to be to leave. I definitely don't love him but I don't want to leave either. Our kids are happy and thriving. I'm happy apart from our marriage. We're financially secure and have a gorgeous house, everyone's well etc. We have lots of lovely family time. DH is totally devoted to us, does most of the housework and childcare (but he became a knob when I was doing all of the housework and childcare so it's not that), he adores me and our sex life strangely is really good. BUT he is always grumpy, sarcastic and critical. His way of showing affection is putting his middle finger up to me and smirking. He thinks I've had worse is a compliment for my cooking. He hates dogs, cats, sugar, hipsters, anything organic, white people with dreadlocks, anything and everything. Everything I suggest is always a stupid idea, kids are a pain in the arse (although that's only part of the time, most of the time he's happily sitting playing Lego/wrestling/reading stories to them). He's constantly snapping at the kids and just too often spoils the mood in the house. It's not bad all the time but it's bad more than I'd like. At times I feel like I can't leave him with the kids for a second without him having a go at them. Then there can be days or weeks of peace.

We've been seeing a couple's counsellor for more than six months now. After a couple of months we had a month that things were better and I felt like I was starting to get some of my feelings towards him back. Then it got bad again and is awful at the moment. The counsellor has seemed really good but last time she said if I won't start making more of an effort for us to have dates and time together she can't see things getting better. I had imagined the problem was more his emotional problems but maybe I'm wrong?

Sorry the long rant. Is it totally stupid to stick with it? To see whether the counselling can help make a difference? Or the children growing and life stresses calming down.. if that would change things? And in the meantime finding out more about who I am and making sure I look after myself and my happiness as well as my children's. Almost like building my life and happiness outside my marriage too. It might not be the perfect life or the perfect marriage to teach kids about relationships. But to me it still seems better than the alternative and we're both trying really hard to change things. Is it naive to hope things could get better?

Your post is so difficult to get my head around as it's so contradictory and confusing.

When did this start? After child 3? How old are the children? How do you manage to maintain a good sex life when you don't love him and don't even like him?

Very difficult to give advice based on the above.

oh come on, your children are happy and thriving when you cannot leave them alone for one minute and their father is constantly snapping at them

ooookaaaaaaaaaaaaay

CR it sounds contradictory and confusing because that's what it is. It started seven years ago when our eldest was born and has slowly gotten worse throughout the years. For a long time I was convinced he was emotionally abusive but then I started thinking he's not doing it on purpose but just because he doesn't know another way to feel/behave. I thought the therapist would have picked up on it but he is so different in the sessions. And when I bring this up he apologises and says he is trying to change etc.. the sex thing is weird.. obviously it doesn't happen when he has just been horrible so probably isn't as frequent as it could be if he was nicer. But for years I've felt like sex is more like a need being met rather than something where we connect and feel close. For me that is - I'd expect it's different for him as he does love me. It sounds awful but that's what it is. And for some reason it still works for me too - I'm just emotionally totally detached. This makes me sound pretty messed up actually.. maybe I am.

The children.. he does snap at them lots. Mainly the eldest. The younger two are definitely happy and thriving. I really can't think of anything that would prove otherwise. The eldest sucks her thumb and struggles at times with temper tantrums but I always thought neither are that unusual. Apart from that she seems happy to me and school always say how well she does and happy she seems. Obviously the long term effects might be very different though. Or it could be it's not as bad as I think and I'm making sound a lot worse than it is. How would I know though? I really don't anymore.

Is your DH grumpy, sarcastic and critical with other people, or just you and the kids?

What happens when the two of you try to have dates?

I go round and round about my marriage. There are some really good things about it, and some just ridiculous things about it.

Firstly, it wouldn't do any harm to talk to a solicitor about what sort of financial settlement you might get if you divorce. If you have a lower income than your H you may get more than 50% of the assets so you may not necessarily end up in a hovel.

Secondly, you might want to think about some personal counselling in addition to or instead of the relationship counselling. Or look into the Freedom programme (available online as well as face to face).

Maybe take baby steps and get some interest away from the children, away from home - go out with your friends, join a club. Learn to be away from the children, a couple of times a month. Do this while you are still married.

If she's said you aren't committed to date nights then you need to address that forthwith.

I'm divorced. It's shit tbf. There is no way it could have been any other way (he was an abuser) but if I could have made it work I would have. Divorce is fucking hard despite the hype. Do everything you can to make this work if at all possible.

Bubblings suggestion to explore your outside life a bit sounds good. Bring some fresh air into your marriage and home.

Completely random question but what’s DH’s family background?

Hip he's only like that with us. At his work people request to deal with him rather than anybody else as he's so empathetic and lovely. And to be honest most of the time he's like that with us too. If I've ever got any problems with work or kids have got trouble at school etc he's so lovely and supportive and gives great advice.

Dates are always great! It's like none of this exists. We have such a nice time and a good laugh and talk about everything. Then coming back home it only takes ten minutes for him to say something horrible or to snap at the kids. It's always such a disappointment.

I don't need to talk to a solicitor as I don't want a divorce at the moment. And financially I'd be ok. I might struggle for a couple of years but my job has lots of opportunities for extra hours and good money so it wouldn't be that bad. But the thing is when I think about living without our family unit I realise I definitely don't want that. I just want him to return to be the happy person I used to know. He insists he can change and said to be last night I need to start telling him every single time he says something grumpy or out of other and help him realise when it happens. He is totally owning up to it and wanting to change.

Bubbling I've been doing exactly that. I've started hobbies again and am learning to be more assertive. Have had people commenting on it positively at work too. The counsellor seems to think it'd be more important that DH would do this though as she thinks his lack of any time without us is part of the problem. He wants new friends and hobbies but is cripplingly shy in new situations and so finds it too scary to take anything new up. It's a ongoing work though.. we've got a couple of plans for this.

springy that's the bit that nobody talks about. Especially here people tend to advise to divorce as soon as there's even a hint of emotional abuse. I just don't think it's that simple. And I feel like there's a bit of hope still and can't see divorced life as being glamorous or imagine a relationship with someone else would be that much easier. There would just be different problems.

Legend it's not a random question. His parents are lovely but mum totally scared of any negative emotions of anyone and dad doesn't understand emotional life at all. He's from a big family where they didn't get enough attention as there was too many of them for the time parents had due to dad being away a lot. Dad was very critical and spanked if naughty. Mum very warm but crippled if anyone feels even just sad. All the siblings now regularly fall out over who gets more money/who's kids get most grandparents love etc.. all of them struggle with anxiety/depression and his brothers talk to their wives in the same grumpy/critical/descending/sarcastic way. I'd say family/childhood is pretty much 100% behind this but how to fix this.

I've had a lot of therapy in the past due to my own mental health issues. My problems definitely don't help our marriage. Last CBT and counseling I had both therapists said I had no hope of getting "better"/feeling happy until issues in my marriage were sorted. Haven't got enough money ATM but planning on paying for private therapy in a couple of years when couple's counseling is hopefully not draining the account anymore. Tbh we'd both need individual therapy though.

Try reading up on Mindfulness. It helped me deal with anxiety issues recently. Your own upbringing has a big effect on how you interact with the world and from what you describe, it sounds as if DH is modelling his father's communication style.
My advice would be to make an effort to find humour rather than negativity in how he interacts. Try challenging him in a kind, humorous yet assertive manner. Remember, you can't change other people...you can only change the way you react and respond to them. I personally found that good advice when it was pointed out to me.