Do I accept I will never see them again and stop sending gifts?

[PerditaSinjorino]

My DB and I haven't spoken for 3 years. DB was the one who stopped talking to me.

We both had a difficult upbringing and DB is unable to come to terms with it or forgive DM. I on the other-hand feel I spent too long allowing the past to ruin my present/future and chose to forgive DM for my own sanity (even though DM still thinks she did nothing wrong and has never acknowledged or apologised for her part in our unhappy childhood).

I keep contact with DM very low though. But I have DCs of my own who I don't want to be affected by my past. I feel that my DM should at least try to be a good DGM to her DGCs. She's certainly no Mary Poppins, but on the occasions she see's her DGC she's nice to them and they enjoy seeing her. I like this kind of 'normality' for my DCs.

DB can't understand why I don't share his resentment though, and he seems determined to make DM suffer forever - although not directly to her face. Its all very passive aggressive and rather cowardly. DB frequently posts cryptic comments on social media about DM, doesn't invite DM to important family occasions (or doesn't invite ANY of his own family so he doesn't "have to invite HER too!"). He also sometimes sends DM goady text messages. DM doesn't respond to these texts and that winds him up even more. It causes constant family tension and I just don't have the energy to participate in it too. I just live my life as quietly and as normal as possible, and put the past behind me.

DB is happily married, has a good job, a nice house, two lovely kids and a generally happy life. DM on the other hand has ruined every friendship and significant relationship she's ever had. Shes an unhappy alcohol-dependent bitter old loner now. In my opinion she has her comeuppance for how she's treated us. So I think DB should just let it go and consider himself lucky, because despite our awful upbringing, the only one that's suffering now is DM.

DB has had counselling, as have I. I TOTALLY get the anger he feels, but find it toxic to hold on to it and let it fester forever. But DB can't understand my views, and has therefore cut me off as he claims I'm unsupportive. He has ignored all my attempts to hold out an olive branch and make contact with him. We live hundreds of miles apart so I can't just pop round and chat to him. I only visit our home county once or twice a year.

When I visit home, I go to DM's and DB has told her when I'm visiting his DC's are not allowed to see me. (Despite cutting me off for not being supportive of his vendetta against DM, he hasn't actually cut DM off)

At our DGFs funeral a couple of years ago DB completely ignored me, both at the ceremony and the wake. He spent the entire time throwing me dirty looks and making nasty indirect digs at me (I was in earshot but not actually speaking directly to me). He sniggered at me while I made a short speech about DGF, which was humiliating. He then left the wake early (after knocking back two bottles of wine that were being reserved to make a toast to DGF) and refused to say goodbye to me. I was incredibly hurt. But, I accepted DB's decision and I stopped trying to contact him after this.

However, I still adore my two nephews (his DC's). I miss them terribly. In the time that DB hasn't spoken to me, I've continued to send them birthday/easter/christmas cards and gifts as I don't want them to think I don't love them any more. I don't think its fair to make any of our DC's suffer.

I'm in no way trying to 'out-do' DB, play 'one-upmanship' or antagonise him by sending his DCs cards and gifts. I've spent so many hours wondering if I'm doing the right thing. But the guilt of completely ignoring the DC's birthdays/special occasions would eat me up. They're only young, but old enough to know Aunt Perdita hasn't sent them anything this year.

DB in these last 3 years has never sent my DCs any cards or gifts for their birthdays or christmas. Never asks how my DC's are when he occasionally visits DM to collect the gifts I've sent his DC's. DM says DB is quite happy to let his DCs have the gifts I send, but then slags off what I've bought them or says things along the lines of "Perdita better not have bought them anything noisy or messy / cheap tat / any thing they don't like / any thing they already have, otherwise its going straight in the bin!". He doesn't ask DM to pass on any thanks from the DC's. In fact DB doesn't even tell them the gifts are from me, DM makes a point of letting them know who the gifts are from.

Its really really hurtful. And I'm hurt for my own DCs who never receive so much as a text from DB and have been cut off from their cousins.

It's coming up to Christmas again and my DH thinks its time to stop sending my nephews any more gifts, as DB is clearly ungrateful, disrespectful and sends our DC's nothing. I'm starting to think DH is right, as I think that DB will never come round and this is the end of our relationship. I don't think I'm ever going to see my nephews again.

But it feels so wrong to punish children like that. Its keeping me up at night worrying that my nephews will grow up thinking I didn't give a shit about them.

WWYD?... Is my DH right, should I stop the cards and gifts, or should I just keep sending them, even if I never see my nephews again?

I would let go of your brother and his family. You've found a way of coping with your M. I agree, your brother sounds toxic and harmful to you. He seems to revel in how much misery he is able to inflict on you.

I really feel that everyone in this situation is using you Perdita. Your mother is playing you and your brother off against one another, and he is lapping it up. It sounds exactly the same as when you were children.

I get that you want to shield your children from this, but what you don't see is that by trying to maintain a relationship with everyone you are keeping them in the middle of things. I've made the difficult decision that my DC will not know my father. I'll just have to explain that in age appropriate ways - there are other family to love them.

Have you spoken to your other siblings who live with your mother? How old are they - why can't you have independent relationships with them? I can't imagine they're unaffected by all of this, how do they feel?

I think you to step outside of this wildly dysfunctional family situation for your own sanity.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

In dysfunctional familt terms I think you have been labelled as a flying monkey for your mother,
Standard advice to people who want no contact with their abuser is to go no contact with flying monkeys who won’t stop when asked.
If you don’t have their address then there’s not much that you can do. Any attempt to send cards via others would be seen as intrusive and a form of harassment. Your brother doesn’t want contact, that applies to his children. Until they are old enough to choose you have to accept that.

"I get that you want to shield your children from this, but what you don't see is that by trying to maintain a relationship with everyone you are keeping them in the middle of things"

This in its entireity. Also using your children as a reason to maintain contact is actually not a good enough reason to maintain any contact with someone like your mother. Children need emotionally healthy role models for grandparents and your mother is clearly not emotionally healthy. You maintain contact for your own reasons, namely obligation which is all part of the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) inadequate and selfish parents like your mother leave their now adult siblings with. You are still very much a part of the overall dynamic that happened when you were children and that is still being played out. I also think your mother is playing you and your brother like the proverbial violins against both you as individuals and each other.

She was not a good parent to you and your siblings when growing up and you really do not owe this person anything now. Your family of origin is inherently dysfunctional so your children will never see or have a "normal" grandparent type relationship with their grandmother.

Re your brother I would also stop sending gifts; its not warranted, acknowledged or wanted. I do understand your feelings of guilt here re them but they will really not care that you have or have not sent gifts to them because they do not see you anyway. They may not have any conception at all as to who you actually are because you do not really feature at all in their day to day lives.

I do not think your mother is now the only one suffering (this from your initial post. Both you and your brother continue to deal with the emotional fallout from your mother's own toxic parenting of you as children.

Unfortunately Perdita by continuing to be a part of the triangle you are simply giving your mother (particularly she) and brother more power and control. Therefore you have to take a huge step back here and step away for your own peace of mind and sanity. You cannot reason with dysfunctional.

What a horrible situation for you OP. You sound like a very caring person, but also I suspect you are much stronger than your brother.

You haven't allowed your past to make your present toxic - sounds as though he has not been so successful and perhaps he resents that.

Some of his behaviour towards you is toxic in itself, and unfortunately he has learnt that from his mother's example.

For your own sanity I would let this go, stop sending gifts and concentrate on your own family and your own happiness.

hugs xxx

Thanks everyone. You've all given me a lot to mull over. I spent all last night going over it in my head. And I think I've reached the conclusion that I do need to stop the gifts, step back and just concentrate on my own family.

I know that the youngest of the nephews won't even remember me. And the eldest, although he'll remember me, the relationship is growing more and more distant that he will no longer feel anything for me. And I therefore doubt they will ever come looking for me in the future. My desperation is probably being mocked by DM and DB.

And as a pp says, it could be viewed as intrusive harassment if I continue to try and force my gifts on them. That's what I've been battled with. I don't want them to feel pressured or harassed, but I also didn't want anyone to think I stopped loving or caring for any of them, including DB. The gifts, as well as showing my nephews I still cared, was also an olive branch to DB. But its an olive branch he clearly doesn't want to take.

It breaks my heart. Its been an awful realisation, and it actually makes me feel rather nauseous to accept I have lost my DB and nephews. But he doesn't want me any more. And DM has more than likely played a huge part in stirring and manipulating the whole thing for the last 3 years. I do think he has become just as toxic.

I'm still in a quandary with going NC with DM though. Purely because I have other siblings that live with her, and going NC with her will result in also going NC with siblings. My DM has disowned me on a couple of occasions over the years, whenever I've stood up to her. And during those periods of disownment she forbids the siblings to see me. She poisons them to believe its right to disown me. I'm the one that has to go crawling back apologising just so I can see my siblings.

She has treated my other siblings VERY differently to DB and I, because they were the DC's from her new relationship (although her current DH recently left DM). The other siblings have been spoilt and live with her rent-free. They weren't old enough/born to either know, or remember, how DB and I were treated and pushed. They have been told DB and I have over-exaggerated / lied and were just difficult children.

I've put them straight without going into too many details, as I don't think its fair to put them in the middle and make them side with anyone, but I don't know if they believe me.

Step away from your DB & his DW They sound like they are piss takers who are happy to take presents from you on there terms.

As for your DB’s children save money for them, give it to them when they are older and explain why you stopped relationships with their parents

Not giving parents to the DC will soon give DB something to moan about - the twat

I think you need to step back and stop sending presents, your DH is right.

I have a very toxic DB, I couldn't go NC with him completely because it would have meant going NC with my mum, who, though a pain at times, was a good GM to my kids and they would have been devastated.

My DB would stop birthday and xmas presents when it suited him (ie when things didn't go his way), I initially carried on with my niece, until one day I just thought, sod this, I am being taken for a mug. I did feel guilty, and people said keep the upper hand, but I couldn't do it.

The biggest fall out with DB and mum was 3yrs ago, finding out she had given him a large amount of money, confiding in others in family but not me (he blackmailed her and she was scared of him). I am now virtually NC with him since mum died almost 2yrs ago.

DN is a lovely girl, despite her father, who isn't always nice to her so she is well aware of him being a t*t. We saw her and boyf at crem on mums first anniversary (DB couldnt be bothered getting off his lazy a*e to attend!) but I forgot to give her our contact details and kicked myself when we had driven off.

However DB did text me to tell me she had graduated in the summer which gave me the opportunity to send a card and my contact details, along with some money. We have since exchanged texts, I sent her a birthday card and will do same for Christmas. I see it as a relationship with my grown up niece now, excluding my DB, and I hope it continues. If it doesn't, at least I know I tried.

I know your nephews are younger and you probably will never have a relationship with them, but I think trying to flog a dead horse by sending presents is going to hurt you even more.

I agree with your DH. Time to let go of your DB and stop sending gifts.

He has serious issues and out doesn't make sense that
he won't speak to you because you have a relationship with your mum and so does he.

Can you not have a separate relationship with your half siblings excluding your mother?

Maybe he's been fed so many false stories about you by your DM.

Either way...leave out the gifts and don't even bother mentioning it to your DM. Anything you say will go back to him and be twisted to make him dislike you even more.

"Can you not have a separate relationship with your half siblings excluding your mother?"

I really don't think so, because they still live with DM. They are late teens/early twenties and can't afford to move out yet. While ever they still live with her she would poison them against me & ban them from contacting me. I also live a good 4-5 hrs drive away, so I can't just pop round when DM is at work, or whatever.

Plus, last night, after discussing all this with DH, It also dawned on me that my half siblings don't really give a toss about me that much anyway. Its me that wants to see them, but whenever I visit they stay for half an hour or so and then bugger off out to see mates/girlfriend etc. If I try to plan doing any thing with them, like a day out, they never fancy it.

As I'm a fair bit older than them, and left home young, we weren't really brought up together. And I'm now a boring old fart to them. Before I moved away I used to make the effort to still see them as much as I could, but as they've grown up and I've moved away they've started to lead their own lives and aren't really that fussed about me really... which is understandable.

So I guess if I went NC with DM, I don't really have much to lose. Its just an overwhelmingly sad thought that I will have literally NO family left. My DH says I have his side of the family, who love me... and I know they do. I'm lucky to have been welcomed into such a warm family. They've all changed my life. But having no family from my side just feels really awful