DS wants to live with his dad

[darkestevening]

I've had an awful time of things from dh over the years in many ways. It hasn't been easy but I can't live like this now, I want to go.

My son however wants to live with his dad. (He is 11.)

There doesn't appear to be any way I can change this. I don't know what to do. To hold off the split were my first instincts but things are getting worse and there are other children to think of.

All I can think of is to let him know I love him and he has a home with me whenever he wants it.

His father is a violent, rapist drug abusing monster.
There is no question here who he should live with! He would not be in a safe environment if you left him behind. He will have to go with you and your H will have to apply for access which will need to be supervised if it’s granted at all.
Are there any police reports? Abusive messages or other evidence you can use to prove his behaviour?

No, nothing. And supervised contact won't be granted. I'm not trying to be awful in saying he'll have to go, it's because of him I have stayed this long, but I can't do so any longer. I just can't.

Go and see a family solicitor and go to court for them to decide living arrangements. This is urgent. Your 11 year old will be listened to but he is not old enough to decide where he lives if his choice is dangerous and your DH is not providing an acceptable environment. There are many reasons why you will get what is best for your family. Your DH and your son do not hold the trump cards. Make an appointment and get the ball rolling.

Why won’t supervised contact be granted? You don’t know until you take professional advice.

I have! I sometimes feel it's all I've done for the last 3 years or so. And I keep hitting hard against this very sharp rock. Supervised access is only granted when there's abuse against the child

That’s not true, I can’t say to much because it’s outing but I work in a role where many children are on child protection plans because of domestic abuse towards a parent. Those children are not allowed unsupervised access with the abusive parent.

too*

I can't obviously speak for any case that isn't my own but it's been made very clear to me that I have no grounds whatsoever for supervised contact.

Is that because there’s no evidence of his actions and behaviour?

No, it's because the children aren't being harmed.

But they are being harmed, emotionally.

I'm explaining how it is seen from a legal standpoint, not giving my personal view.

Okay you do need to calm down, sorry.

How much contact does your ex want?
Do you have any evidence of the drug taking?
Was the rape reported?

When your ex has contact you need to fake being happy and normal. You keep records and be open to hearing what the children say.

I am calm

I don't really want to discuss the finer details, if you don't mind.

I often post questions but there is no reason for anyone to answer them here. But they might be useful to answer to yourself.

I think it can be easy to assume that an abusive man won't be given unsupervised access to the children, but in fact it's much more complex than that. As I've indicated, I won't pretend to be an expert on everybody's case but certainly for mine, it is straightforward enough: even if I had definitive proof that DH had done what he had done (I don't) since the abuse is aimed at me and not the children I cannot prevent him having access to them.

And I have tried to stay as a result and convinced myself it isn't that bad and I'm fine. Sometimes I even believe it.

My friends ExH was ordered to have supervised access because of a risk of emotional abuse towards their children. He’s never physically abused them in any way. I don’t know what else to advise you other than to seek a different legal opinion, there must be a solicitor or judge somewhere who can see that your child is at risk of emotional harm.

I am sorry you are in such a difficult place. You do have to leave and I agree solicitor and court asap. Sending you a big unmumsnetty hug x

Slarty, the difference is Dh hasn't emotionally abused our children.

Did your son witness any of these acts of violence that he carried out on you? Where there arguments in front or in the same house as him that he could hear?

If so, then he has been abused. Emotionally.

Has he ever displayed distress, unwanted learned behaviours by being exposed to this man?

If so, then he has been abused. Again from secondary emotional abuse.

Have you ever taken DS to a Dr or therapist or counsellor about this? Has he ever missed school due to stress caused by this? Has he ever confided in a teacher? Any of these things would be evidence to support the negative effect on your DS.

You sound like you've had a really really really awful time but I also agree that you need to figure out if you can actually save your DS from going there because I agree with you OP, it sounds like a really bad idea.

I am not disputing that keepon, but from the point of view of the courts, it is not emotional abuse of the child.

I hope this comes across in the spirit it is intended in, but I do think some posters here have a bit of a naive view of just what it takes to keep a child away from their parent (assuming the parent wishes to have contact, of course.)

Essentially I have two choices. Choice one is I stay. I put up and shut up. That is not all bad. It has its advantages. It is financially easy. I have support in a manner of speaking - another adult in the house. I am quite good at this stage at managing dh and his moods. Many of the "worst" incidents were in the early years of our relationship when I was still inclined to fight back.

Choice two is to leave. I have looked into this oh so many times. Anyone who has ever been there will know, you feel this sort of desperation that sort of drills down into the very essence of your being and you feel you just can't do another day like this and you start trying and (it feels like) you get sabotaged at every turn. Because he is entitled to see his children.

I feel perhaps my best option is to go asap, and I think I just have to let DS go if that is what he wants. But he always always will have a home with me, even if he does not want it. Maybe that is the wrong approach, though.

It sounds like a very healthy approach to me.

I wasn't attempting to criticise you OP - or indeed to say that you aren't wrong about the fact that the courts are often a bunch of twats when it comes to safeguarding children. The entire protection of children in this country is absolutely shite - no coincidence me thinks that the majority of people who made up these laws are men (and a great many of them paedophiles - but I digress).

I do wonder though if after all these years of the horrible treatment you've had that you possibly (and again, I'm not accusing) not realised the effect - or are you saying there has been no effect (which I can't imagine).

Were S/S ever involved? Would it, on this occasion (if they haven't been before), be a good idea to get them involved?? Build your case and have their professional opinion with you in court around contact??

OP he's only entitled to see them if he's not a source of fear, misery, violence, emotional abuse. If he is, then he's not entitled to anything. Again, I understand what you say about the courts - but what's the priority here for you?

Get DS (and yourself) away from this horrible person or get yourself (only) away from this person? What do you want to be the outcome at this point?

Thanks, kitty

Keepon, thank you. It's impossible to say what the effects are and to pinpoint them.

Re SS, no, they have never been involved. My husband is an educated and professional man. Before anyone jumps on me, again, I have to point out the realities. Overwhelmingly, SS are not even remotely interested in what goes on behind middle class doors and they are themselves more likely to be intimidated and impressed by middle class parents.

Nor would I get SS involved. But thank you.

Keepon - but that is your opinion, it is an opinion I agree with, but it is not the law.