We've just had a big argument about ....

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

We have been married 11 yrs, and have 3 DC together.
DD2 had brownies this evening and he takes her, there were some forms that needed to be taken in this evening so whilst we were stood in the kitchen I got the forms put them in front on him and said 'these forms need to be handed in when you take her'

He leaves when I'm in the bath and then comes home, I go downstairs to give DS some medicine and the forms are on the side, I shout up saying he didn't take them at which point a big row happens.

The thing is he does this thing where I will say something that he hasn't done and some how or another we end up arguing about something completely different.
So example tonight is I say he hasn't taken the forms and all of a sudden he is telling me I am unreasonable for telling her not to forget her torch, which in fact wasn't the case I told DD she didn't need her torch today. Then what happens is I am defending myself by saying that's not what I said and the original thing doesn't get discussed.

That didn't happen this evening I confronted him and told him it wasn't about the bloody torch but the forms at which point he says he didn't hear me and I need to make sure he acknowledges the request and it's not a big deal because he can take them when he collects her.

I have ended up feeling like I am the one in the wrong but deep down know I am not and just feel like crying because he doesn't listen. I can't even bring it up again because we will just go round and round in the same circles.

I have awful awful confidence issues and constantly beat myself up when things aren't done or I forget something but I am starting to wonder if it's yrs of this that's caused it.

Has anyone had any experience of this and how I can actually get him to listen to what I say.

Sorry to hear that OP. That sounds like a useful portrait of the rows that I used to have with XH. No wonder you have ‘awful confidence problems’.

You described the anatomy of the argument very well...and this is his modus operandi...to confuse you, shut you down and make you feel like shit, this deterring you from EVER challenging him.

Of course you were entirely reasonable to pick him up on the stupid forms, but he has somehow managing to blame you because you didn’t get a complete sign off from him. Of course you told him and of course he heard you. All he’s interested in is assigning blame...ON TO YOU. Even if that is completely mad. And yes, even if you had totally got in his face with the forms and got an acknowledgment, then he would always find another reason to blame you.

These are all gaslighting decoys. If your confidence is low I suspect that he does this a lot.

Does the word ‘eggshells’ ring a bell?

He is treating you badly and I think you know it. I think you know that decent, reasonable men do not treat their partners like this.

You ask for ways to communicate better with him. Dear OP, this is NOT a communication problem. You are making yourself perfectly clear. This is a husband problem. And he is being a turd.

Hillfarmer - i have challenged him on this before and the last time we argued (can't remember exactly what it was about) every time he tried to make the conversation about something else I wouldn't allow him to and just kept coming back to the point. I do remember that eventually conceded that yes he was in the wrong.

I just end up feeling like I have a ball of anxiety in my chest because I KNOW I wasn't in the wrong, I KNOW I asked him and if he would just say sorry I forgot I'll take them when I get her then I wouldn't be feeling like this.

I will admit that i was probably narky when I said about him not taking the forms but that's a whole other issue about me dealing with everything and having to remember everything and remind him of things when he's a full grown man and shouldn't need telling or reminding.
The thing was I sent the email with the forms to him yesterday and asked him
To print them, he is quite capable of reading and could have read the email to find out what they were and when they needed to be in but he didn't he just printed them and then I had to fill them in AND tell him to take them.

I have been seriously considering suggesting marriage counselling recently and I think I will, perhaps he will listen to me then.

I have awful awful confidence issues

Not surprised if that's what you have to live with. Literally the only way to deal with it is to stay flat-calm and just keep pulling them back to the subject at hand which is extremely hard if you've been 'conditioned' to second guess yourself and constantly told that you have to satisfy a long list of conditions in order for them to behave like a reasonable adult.

I'd be tempted to suggest counselling on your own for a while to help build your confidence and work out what you want before trying joint/marriage counselling.

My exH used to do this. I would say something completely reasonably, he would snap and shout at me, I'd shout back and he'd go, 'calm down, you're so irrational, you can't talk about anything calmly. Everything would get turned back on me. If things are good in other ways then counselling will probably be good for you. We actually went for counselling and it did help us understand each other and communicate better. The therapist actual identified a couple of really big things which helped massively. Unfortunately there were other issues in my marriage (constant infidelity on his part) which meant I eventually left but the counselling was good.

I would go to counselling on your own to sort your own head out. I don’t think joint counselling will clarify anything for you at this stage...I think he would do everything he could to muddy the waters.

That ball of anxiety is because you know he may try to wrongfoot you at any point. You don’t know when or why, just that it WILL happen again.

You will also realise that it is not about winning the argument. You can be as calm and rational as you like, and of course you will be right because you are a reasonable person. This is about shutting you down. He does not need to be rational and reasonable. All you need to know, from his point of view, is that if you challenge him You.Will.Be.Punished. Isn’t that how it feels?

You are not dealing with reasonable here. If you were then you could have a calm debate with nice, open channels of communication and useful progress made. This maybe what you want but it is not what he wants. He may tell you different, but his actions will tell you more. He wants control, not teamwork.

Counselling for your own self would be helpful but do not ever do joint counselling with him. He likely would not attend any sessions anyway because he thinks he is doing nothing wrong here. Also joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. His actions are indeed all about power and control and gaslighting you as he is doing is another form of emotional abuse.

Abuse is not about a lack of communication (and there is nothing wrong with your way of communicating), its about power and control.

Do you like him OP?
Was he always like this? When you said 'I went to give my DS medicine' I wondered if your resentment has built up for feeling that you have to do everything for everybody. Whilst in his eyes, he's seeing a controlling martyr (not saying you are! But in his mind he might have zoned out of listening to instructions).
He doesn't sound as if he enjoys living with you either. So be prepared for some rocky, frank discussions. Counselling alone first sounds like an excellent idea.