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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My parents hate each other , I hate visiting them, I’m pregnant....

25 replies

LaurG · 19/11/2017 21:30

My parents are in their late sixties and live some 600 miles away from my brother and I.

They have never had a particularly amicable relationship yet remained married.

The issue with them I think is thar they are completely incompatible. Individually they are kind and loving people that are fun to be around. Together they are a nightmare.

My father is a traditional man. In all honesty would have been happy with a stay st home with who assumed a traditional role. This is not my mother. She was a high flying career woman with ambition and little interest in the home. My father took little to no responsibility for us - seeing parenting as a woman’s role. This left my mother to assume most responsibilities. Not surprisingly this caused a lot of resentment. There was a lot of fighting and bickering. The two of them would play games to wind the other up and us kids were left somewhere in the middle with a big parent sized gap in our lives. Neither of them had much interest in being parents and I often wonder what on earth they had kids for? They had us late in the relationship and I can’t help wonder whether they would have been much happier without us..

They have come close to divorce several times and to be honest I wish they had.

Their relationship improved somewhat when my brother and I left the house. Without the responsibility of caring for us their relationship improved. We had a good ten years of relative calm. However, this changed once again when they retired. Spending time together highlighted just how different their needs and desires are. They have completely different outlooks on life And neither will move to accommodate the other. They can’t agree on where to spend their retirement or anything for that matter. The situation was compounded by my elderly grandmother who at this tie needed quite a lot of attention. Once again my dad somewhat shirked his responsibility. This has dug up all of the feelings of resentment from the past and we are once again in a very unpleasant situation.

My father is undoubtedly a very selfish man. However to be married to him you either have to accept his faults or leave. He isn’t going to change. My mother has turned in to quite an unpleasant person and deeply unhappy. This has not only been targeted at my father but at us kids too. I would have all the sympathy in the world for her if she didn’t act the way she did. She is the queen of passive aggression and never says what is really wrong with her. This makes things worse with my dad. Instead of saying ‘I am angry at you for leaving me to deal with your mother’ she picks fights constantly over trivial items like the tv volume or takes to the silent treatment For weeks at a time. My father isn’t psychic he is a man of a certain age that needs things clearly laid out. If you treat him correctly and explain what is wrong he is actually quite responsive. His reaction to her is to avoid her as much as possible which in turn makes things worse. They are both at fault.

This treatment does not stop at my father. It rolls on to me and my brother too. We seem to endlessly annoy her. She will ignore me for weeks over minor disputes and constantly tells me how much like my father I am. My father uses me as a sounding board to bitch about her which doesn’t help either. I’ve asked him not to involve me but he can’t help it.

Three years ago my grandmother went into a care home and died earlier this year. We hoped this would alleviate some of the issues between parents. It hasn’t.

Visiting has become a nightmare. It is fine if they are there individually but together it is horrendous. The tension between them is palpable. My mum snaps at my dad (and me) constantly. There is an atmosphere in the house and to be honest I dread seeing them.

I have married in to a very happy family which makes the dysfunction of my own more noticeable.

I can’t understand why neither of them will make any effort to accommodate the other. Part of me thinks they actually quite like the tension. My relationship with them,especially with my mother, had deteriorated.

Things recently came to a head and with my mum. She said I was cutting her out of my life. I will admit I do avoid them both as visiting is so unpleasant and I adit that this has hurt their feelings.But when I explained why she refused to acknowledge my point of view. She says any issues at home are all my dads fault. As I said he is a selfish man, but she too bears some of the responsibility for the continued deterioration of their relationship.

At the end of the day, if they decide to love lie this I can’t do anything about it. It is their relationship not mine. However, when it spills in to my life I just can’t take the unpleasantness of it all. It upsets me to see them both so unhappy. It also upsets me how little effort they will make to get along when we visit. They think this is normal. It’s not.

I’ve just found out that I’m pregnant with my first child and dread the fall out of this. I grew up with no extended family (another story) and I want this kid to have a good relationship with its grandparents. This will no doubt require more parental visits. As things stand I cant think of anything worse. We need to find some way of getting on.

I have apologised to my mother for being distant and for hurting her feelings. But she refuses to acknowledge the issues at home. My dad does and to be fair always makes the effort to be pleasant when visiting.

I just don’t know where to go now.

Any help most

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 20/11/2017 06:33

Your children won’t have a loving relationship with their grandparents because their grandparents won’t want a loving relationship with them.

You can’t force it, no matter how much you want it.

You need to decide on boundaries with them and stick to them. Eg, they are not allowed to complain about the other to you.

They responsible for their choices and the consequences of those choices is they don’t have a relationship with their grandchildren. They might not even care.

Don’t actively put your children in their reach just because you think that will be better then no relationship. No relationship is way better then exposure to that.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/11/2017 07:31

What Aussiebean wrote in its entirety. I would not expose yourself to them further let alone your child. Your child will not have anything like an emotionally healthy relationship with them because they are not emotionally healthy themselves. You do not have a relationship with them really either. Your child therefore having no relationship with his/her paternal grandparents is better, it really is. Also like many dysfunctional and toxic people they have not apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions.

It's not your fault your parents are like this, you did not make them this way. They are selfish and get what they want out of their codependent and dysfunctional relationship; I would leave them to it and not visit. Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with them rather than the one you actually got.

MimiSunshine · 20/11/2017 07:37

You had a poor relationship with your parents growing up because your parents were racing to the bottom on the who can be the worst one game.

They aren’t sudddnly going to change and become Apple cheeked loving parents / grandparents now. Keep your distance, visit only as often as you do now and focus on the healthy and happy family you married into who sound like they’ll give your child the extended family they deserve

RainyApril · 20/11/2017 07:51

Well their behaviour is so ingrained now that it’s very unlikely to change. They didn’t change for the benefit of their own dc, either as children or as adults, so they are unlikely to change for yours.

Luckily your dp has a close and supportive family, and your own live 600miles away.

I would keep contact to a minimum without any further explanation, they already know why.

Should you ever find yourself involved in a discussion again I would certainly avoid implying any blame. Your post reads as if your mother is primarily at fault, but there are enough posts on this board alone to demonstrate that no one ever really knows what goes on inside a marriage, and that jovial good-guy men can be something else entirely when others aren’t around.

Leave them to it. Goodness knows why they never separated, why they can’t get along for the duration of your visits and why they can’t accept that things need to change if they want any sort of relationship with you.

picklemepopcorn · 20/11/2017 07:57

Get them to visit you one at a time. Encourage them to holiday separately- weekends away etc. Then you can visit while only one is there.

Tell them you love them but will not put up with the toxic atmosphere so they have a choice. Tell them you do not care whose fault it is, you just want to enjoy some time with your parents.

LaurG · 20/11/2017 08:07

Great advice here. Thank you all. X

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 20/11/2017 08:26

Btw. My mother with have nothing to do with my child. I can see the toxicity she brings to my nieces and nephews (luckily so do their parents)

They will have loving grandparents on my dh side and that is more then I got so I am happy with that.

So I understand where you are coming from.

BackInTheRoom · 20/11/2017 08:35

Maybe, just maybe, your child will add a new dynamic to this dysfunctional family? Maybe they'll finally get their priorities right because of what's at stake?

SandyY2K · 20/11/2017 08:45

It's codependency that keeps them together, but I wouldn't be thinking about visiting them more often while the atmosphere is bad.

TatianaLarina · 20/11/2017 08:53

A friend of mine is a relationship therapist and he sees quite a lot of relationships like this - basically totally unsuited, don’t like each other, make each other miserable, but refuse to part.

Grandparents are overrated and I wouldn’t idealise that relationship because it doesn’t actually matter whether they’re involved or not.

They might do well to move to one of these new posh retirement villages. There would then be lots of other people around to socialise with and lots of activities - they could basically avoid each other.

OnTheRise · 20/11/2017 08:56

I had a horrible childhood, and my parents sound somewhat similar to yours--very critical of each other, and causing upset and unhappiness rather than trying to work anything out.

I tried for years to give my children a positive relationship with them. It didn't work. Instead we had lots of visits and every single one was marred by my parents trying to cause trouble. They almost always succeeded.

A few years ago I finally stood up to them and all hell broke loose. I haven' seen them since and it's been marvellous. My children are now pretty much adults and they say they are much happier without my parents in their lives, because all they did was confuse and upset them.

OnTheRise · 20/11/2017 08:59

Maybe, just maybe, your child will add a new dynamic to this dysfunctional family? Maybe they'll finally get their priorities right because of what's at stake?

If having their own children to love and cherish didn't help, grandchildren won't either.

Dysfunctional people don't improve because babies arrive. They just do their best to pass on their own dysfunctions.

Adviceplease360 · 20/11/2017 09:00

I would visit your dad separately he seems to be making an effort with you at least.

RiseToday · 20/11/2017 10:13

My in-laws are like this. It's really uncomfortable but it's been going on for so long now, it's just accepted as the status quo within their family.

I don't think it ever enters their head that it may be uncomfortable for people to witness their venom towards each other.

I feel really sorry for you, it must be awful to be stuck in the middle of that. Personally I would just keep a distance and you never know, your new baby might give them something else to focus on rather than their hatred of one another. I've noticed my in laws are better when around our child.

randomer · 20/11/2017 10:17

What a shame. I would say look after your own health and wellbeing.

LaurG · 20/11/2017 11:21

Thanks everyone. I think I said above that things recently came to a head with my mum. She said something completely inappropriate at a family party. She denies this but I think it was said to try to cause issues between my mother in law and I. I get on extremely well with my MIL and I think she is extremely jealous of this. I called her out and all hell broke loose. Anyway, we had a massive argument. It was semi resolved by my news I was preggers. But I feel like we have papered over the cracks. I think I need to resolve this a bit more. I think I should write to her setting out my issues calmly. The think is I don't think she will respond as she thinks all my anger is just pregnancy hormones and will continue to deny any truth. Its making me miserable and I really don't want it to ruin my pregnancy. What do you think?

OP posts:
yowerohotesies · 20/11/2017 11:28

You can't fix people.

Your child cannot have a good relationship with people who don't want a good relationship with the child. You can't make them be good grandparents any more than you could have made them be good parents.

You've survived, you've grown up. You have a lovely (presumably) dh and a baby on the way. Count your blessings and put the needs of your child, your dh and yourself first. No need to cut the disfunctional parents out of your life but don't waste time and effort trying to get them to be who they are not.

yowerohotesies · 20/11/2017 11:31

X-post with your previous one with the idea about the letter. That won't end well. Take a step back and cultivate a water-off-a-ducks-back attitude for future nasty comments. You will not stop the comments by defending yourself.

randomer · 20/11/2017 11:56

This is such great advice yower. I find myself very much further down the line than the OP.

Cricrichan · 20/11/2017 11:57

I think you have to take your own advice to your parents, accept them as they are as they won't change (not acceptable to you or your family, of course), or leave.

Be firm with your parents and refuse to visit them and they are only welcome to visit separately, but only if it's a pleasant experience.

That way, the choice is theirs whether to be a part of your and your child's life.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/11/2017 13:34

Hi LaurG

re your comment:-
"I think I should write to her setting out my issues calmly. The think is I don't think she will respond as she thinks all my anger is just pregnancy hormones and will continue to deny any truth"

Write it down but DO NOT send the letter to her. It will not go down well and such disordered of thinking people take such things as a personal attack on them no matter how nicely your letter is written. A letter will also give her ammo to have a further go at you with.

Consider also finding a therapist to work with. You need to find someone who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

picklemepopcorn · 20/11/2017 16:48

I think that your parents are not the kind of people who can be told they need to change. The dynamic is so entrenched, they couldn’t even if they saw the need.

Don’t try and change them as people, that would be cruel. What matters isn’t what they think or feel but what they do.

Will they respect your request to see them singly, or not?
Will they allow you to protect your family from their toxic behaviour, or not?

Once you have separated them, you can build the relationship with each of them according to how they behave. I wouldn’t have your mother there with your inlaws- she's clearly threatened by it and can’t cope. Think of their bad behaviour as 'being unable to cope' with whatever the situation is, and it becomes easier to manage.

TatianaLarina · 20/11/2017 17:49

I think it’s a complete waste of time confronting her.

She blames everything that’s wrong in her marriage on your father, she will blame everything that’s wrong in her relationship with you on you.

She’s not interested in analysing,developing, moving forward,she just wants to stick in the same old groove of faults and resentments. Calling her out will just make her more angry and more difficult.

You just have to accept the dysfunction as is and work around it.

fatfingeredfran · 21/11/2017 13:44

I could have written the exact same post last year OP. It’s a horrible situation and you have my sympathy. I agree with other posters - you can either choose to accept their dysfunction and take them as they are, or cut them off and get on with your life without them. No matter how much you want them to change they were not willing to change for their own children, for each other or for themselves - so there is no hope of them changing for a grandchild unfortunately. Best to think very carefully about if you want your child around them.

Congrats on the pregnancy and good luck!

LaurG · 21/11/2017 14:15

Thank you all for the wise advice. You are right - I have the cards if they want to see this baby it is on my terms. It was bad enough growing up in a house like that I don't need to deal with it as an adult.

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