Advice please

[Martha7]

NC for this. Thanks for reading...

DH is so jealous of our sons’s girlfriend’s father.

So basically, that is it. They are both middle aged (50-ish,) and DH is a minimum pay factory worker with no qualifications, no real skills, and has never been a high earner. I have always loved him, and have never cared what he earned. He has always been a good husband, a good father, and a good man.

Our son’s girlfriend’s dad (I will call him Dave,) is also poorly educated and from a working class family, (like DH is - and me too.) However, he made some good decisions in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, invested in several properties, worked very hard, invested in other things (stocks and bonds and suchlike,) and long story short, he is now wealthy and very solvent.

He owns 7 properties - 6 that he rents out, and a £400K house he has for himself. All paid for in full. He also has a villa in Florida, and an apartment in Rome. He also has his own business and over 50 staff. His wife is attractive and vivacious, looks 10 years younger than 50, and Dave has just bought her a £30K Mercedes for her 50th birthday. They go abroad on holiday 8-10 weeks of the year, including cruises.

Oddly, I am not remotely jealous of her, and admire how good she looks, and I oohed and aahed at her new merc!. DH is INSANELY jealous of Dave, and is very spiteful about him. Dave is one of the nicest men I have ever met, and is kind and generous, and has a good sense of humour. He has let his daughter and our son use the holiday accommodation a few times, and never charges them. We have met Dave and Louise several times and actually went to their house for a coffee in February for an hour so so, but DH said he didn’t enjoy one second of the time there, and never wants to socialise with them again. Dave and Louise have asked us around for a meal several times since (in the past 6-8 months,) and DH refuses to go.

DH says is that Dave is a ‘flash git’ and is ‘full of himself’ and ‘loud and obnoxious (he isn’t!) He makes snide remarks about how ‘it’s all right for some’ and how anyone can do shit if they have the opportunities in life that HE had. But the fact is that Dave had no more opportunities than my DH, he just took a few risks. Dave has even told our son that we can use the holiday accommodation too, AND he has offered us 30% off certain things that he can get cheap because of being ‘in business’ and DH said he would rather not, as he doesn’t want to be ‘beholden’ to him!

I love my DH, but this side of him is making me so angry. He is bitter and jealous and spiteful, and it’s very unattractive. IMO, he is jealous and mad, because he can see in Dave, what he wanted to achieve in himself – and failed to do. Even before we knew Dave, he said things like ‘I am a failure in life, I am uneducated and pathetic, I am at the bottom of the food chain, I don't know why you bother staying with a pathetic loser like me' and so on.... and he wallows in self-pity. I have had a go at him before (a couple of times,) and said ‘well whose fault is THAT, if you are at the bottom of the food chain?’ I have a professional career and have always been on more money than him, but he has never been bothered by this (not that I know of!) but he HATES Dave. For nothing!

So now, we have been asked to Dave’s 50th birthday celebration, (In late November,) and of course DH is refusing to go. He said ‘make any excuse you like, we’re not going.’ Dave is so nice, and I actually feel really bad about how horrible my DH is about him.

Would I be unreasonable to just go anyway? I am sick of putting this poor man off (and his wife,) because my DH is jealous and angry that he is more of a success than he has ever been. I don’t know what to tell them (I mean the reason DH isn’t there.) Our son and his G/F have no idea how he feels, but I feel awful, constantly saying no. I think our son and his (lovely) girlfriend, would be really upset if they knew how my DH felt.

And how on earth is this going to pan out long term, if my DH is so bitter and jealous of our son’s girlfriend’s dad? Our son and his girlfriend have only been together a year and a half, and it’s already a pain in the arse. DH is very stubborn though, and is point blank refusing to mix with them, at ALL. In 26 years together (23 married,) he has never been like this!

Does anyone have any advice or words of wisdom?

Thank you.

(I did post this in chat a few weeks back, but got hardly any responses or advice, so that is why I am reposting it here. Hope that's OK. I should have really have posted it here to start with!)

I’d go. It’s not up to DH to say if you go or not. Have a good time let him sulk at home. No real advice, sorry.

I know it's up to me whether I go, but I just wondered how this is going to pan out long term, as he so rude about Dave. He virtually refuses to have anything to do with him. In the next few years, we could be related to him!

Any advice anyone, on how I could deal with this situation?

I would go, too. `if your DS and this girl get married you could be in a very long-term family relationship with them all. You don't want to sour it already.

I can understand your DH being wistful about what-might-ave-been, but he has loving wife and family. He's luckier than many people are.

He doesn't like the man. Doesn't matter whether it's because he's jealous, votes for the 'wrong' party or doesn't know the difference between 'their' and 'they're' so long as he's civil, which it sounds like he is if they don't know how he feels. He's not obligated to hang out with someone he doesn't get on with, even if you disagree with his reasons.

I know you are right, but how is it going to be long-term if my husband is so hostile towards this man? My son's girlfriend's father?

Any more advice from anyone?

I am kind of struggling with what to do.

As I said, it's making it so awkward with it being our son's girlfriend's dad.

Thank you.

I can see that's really awkward, but I think that you need to try to get him to see how the only vaguely grown up thing to do is to be civil to what might be potential family. I presume he loves your son, so maybe present it from his point of view, that he needs a Dad that can show a modicum of normal behaviour. It is expected that parents of close relationships might meet a socialise. I don't think you can push for many meetings, or I can see that 'being beholden' might be a bad idea, but the 50th seems like something you ought to really push for and even go on your own. It wouldn't be being disloyal to your husband, but loyal to your son and doing what a parent should do. I do feel sorry for you though,

Thank you Pog. That is helpful advice.

I really want him to come with me, as I feel it will look bad if he doesn't come. I am also aware though, that I cannot force him. (I wouldn't like to be forced into doing something I didn't want to do.) But I wish he would realise I love him for what he is (and so does DS.) The other guy is nice, but is no better than him coz he has more money! I wish he would realise that.

I feel sorry for me too!

I'd definitely go even if husband doesn't. It won't look bad - you're not joined at the hip and he can have other plans or whatever.

And he might realise that you love him but doesn't make him less jealous of someone swanning around in a Merc and jet setting.

Is your dh worried that this 'Dave' will 'steal' your ds and that your ds might not want anything to do with him anymore?

Or has your dh noticed that you admire this man (whose praises you sing) and he has jealousy issues because of that? You sound very enamoured, impressed or personally interested in this man! Your post is all about Dave with not much comment on his wife and how nice she is or how good a sense of humour she has! You seem very impressed by all of his houses and the amount of money he has made! I actually wonder if your dh senses that you have a slight crush on this man! Your comment about not being jealous of his wife was very telling!

Perhaps your dh senses your 'crush' on 'Dave', or is it perhaps a crush on Dave's money and lifestyle? You may be sending signals that you resent your dh for not working as hard as Dave! When really if you wanted a better lifestyle it wasn't purely your dh's responsibility!

I think it was a low blow saying 'well whose fault is that then' when he was obviously feeling insecure. From your post, it looks like your dh has been a hardworking dh and df for all these years. Opportunities to buy several properties don't necessarily come from just 'working hard'. Nor do savings to invest in a volatile stock market! If your dh has worked hard all these years and hears you say it's his fault that he isn't well off like 'Dave', or in straighter words he is 'Lazy' in comparison to Dave, that must hurt A LOT!!!

Would you like it if your dh posted a similar thread about 'Louise', singing her praises and (if you were insecure for not looking as young or as attractive as Louise) he suggested it was your fault, that you didn't work hard enough to stay young looking, or work hard enough to stay slim and attractive. I know I would feel devastated!

Or put differently, how would you feel (as a professional who has obviously been main breadwinner all these years) if your dh turned around and said if only you had worked harder like Dave had, then you too could be the owners of several properties! I would be surprised if that didn't hurt you!

I will say that your dh sounds needy and insecure! (from before your ds met his gf!) Is he manipulative with it? Does he often get jealous when you are in company with other men? Or is he only showing signs of jealousy because he has picked up on your obvious admiration for this man? If this is new behaviour I would look inside myself to see whether my dh had just cause for his jealousy!

Have you sat your dh down and tried reassuring him that money and possessions mean nothing, that being a loving husband and good Father all these years is far more important? Or telling him that as a Father he is irreplaceable and that he need not be jealous, as he will always be your ds's Dad!

I would try the above first, but perhaps an honest conversation, and perhaps an apology are in order, especially if you have been mooning over 'Dave' to the point your dh has felt threatened and insecure. You certainly owe him an apology, for making out your dh was lazy in comparison to Dave, or you would be as rich today.

I may have read too much into this, if I have, I do apologise! However if I as a stranger, think you have at least an admiration for 'Dave', if not a crush, then you need to consider if this is how you are coming across to your dh!

I would go to the party though, perhaps tell your ds that his Dad is booked on a course/ conference/ fishing trip with work/ or tell him you have booked him a trip away as a gift and can't change the dates!

If your dh changes his mind you can always say it had been cancelled at the last minute. I don't envy your situation op! It is not pleasant trying to keep relations cordial when new partners are involved! Different people can just rub each other up the wrong way and unfortunately they may be stuck with a lifetime of awkward meetings if their relatives (the couple) settle down together and marry!

I would go to the party.

I am going to guess this isnt about Dave. Your dh has always felt inadequate. You say its never bothered him that you earn more. I think it does. I think this dave is just another person he feels is better than him. He cant sit and have a go at you for earning more, having a professional career etc. So is taking it out on thid Dave.

I actually think you were right for pointing out that he is where he is, through choice. If it was really choice.

I come from an uneducated background. Mum didnt think it was imporatant because I was a girl. Dbro got loads of support tutors etc. In work, i have had a lot more success than him. Its been hard work and risky choices. But a bit of luck too. I have had some great mentors over the years. That was luck. Dbro has aleays refused opportunities if it included having to put lots of effort or time in. We worked in the same place for a while and I have seen him do it.

If your dh has refused opportunities, not wanted to put in any work etc then he needs to accept its was his choice. But most successful people have had some luck along the way.

We all make choices. If he was happy choosing to stay at the level he has been at, then he needs to embrace what happens as a result. Not take it out on other people.

I digress. I genuinely think this is also related to you and that you earn more. I also think he probably feels you would rather be with Dave (or at least someone like Dave) than him.

Also you dont need to be great mates with your sons in laws. I think you should go to the party, but remember your link is through your kids.

If you split up and you were all best friends, it would be very difficult.

@CaladonianQueen

You could not be more wrong, I have not been 'mooning' over Dave and I don't have a crush on him. WTF? I only expressed in my OP that he is a lovely guy and a big success, to give an overview of what he is like, and that my husband is jealous of him. I have no idea how or why you surmised everything you did about me from my post. And I DID praise his wife and say she is lovely.

And it's my DH that rants on and on about him; I never even mention him to my DH. I thought I made that clear, but I guess you read a lot more into it than what was was actually there. And you didn't acknowledge things that WERE there, like me praising Dave's wife.

Anyway, I was wrong to say 'whose fault is that' that he is at the bottom of the food chain (when he said he was!!) and I should have been more supportive. But I just get sick of his self pity to be honest. It's very unattractive and annoying.

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own life, our own choices, and our own successes. He has had numerous chances in the company he works for (and the previous one,) to be promoted, but he has refused, as he 'can't be arsed with the responsibility.'

He has also started several courses over the past 15-20 years (one of them was an I.T. course that cost us 2.5 grand,) and he dropped out part way in because he found it 'boring.' We still had to pay for it though - £100 a month going out of our account for two and a half years! (There was interest on top too.)

He moans and whines about how shit his life is, and yes, he resents other men who are more successful than him, but as I said, he has had some chances for success and has rebuffed them. So yeah, I'm not gonna sugar coat it actually it IS his fault.

I can only have sympathy for so long, when people moan and whinge about something that is wrong or bad in their life. If they do sod-all to change anything, I lose patience with them.

And the upshot is, my DH is lazy. Again, I am not going to sugar coat it, he is bone idle. He wants his life and career to be amazing, and have all the trappings that men like Dave have, but he never does anything about it. And he never has.

As I said, it is HIM rambling on about Dave, and how 'showy' he is, how 'it's all right for some,' and even 'I bet Dan (our son) thinks I'm a piece of shit compared to Dave!' Yep he actually said that the other night, when Dave said Dan could come away with them in December to Lapland to see the Northern Lights.

So NO, I don't 'fancy' Dave, and I do care about, and love my husband, though he is hard work sometimes!

@Ocicity2

Thank you. I also came from a working class background (very little education, as did Dave (and his wife,) but we have all done quite well through determination and hard work, and as I said, my DH has HAD plenty of chances, he has just rebuffed them. So I do think much of his 'failings' are down to him, I really do.

But I do love him and support him and tell him there is a lot more to being a success and a good person than having 7 houses and a merc! He doesn't need to have riches and wealth for me to love him, but he doesn't believe that, and as I said, I think he sees in Dave, what he wanted for himself.

Yeah I did say 'whose fault is that?' when he said he is a failure, and I was wrong doing that, but as I said, I was just annoyed with him moaning about his lot AGAIN!. We have a lovely house, lovely holidays, a lovely family, a lovely life, and a wonderful son... and he has ME - his wife who loves and supports him no matter what. But he still moans, and resents men more successful than him. (Not women, but men yeah..)

And yeah I wonder if he does feel a bit pissed off that am a higher earner/higher up the career ladder. He has never expressed any annoyance about it, but maybe he is annoyed about it deep down... Not sure what I can do about it though. Give my professional job up and get a job on the tills in poundland! (No offence to anyone who does that!)

It's just so hard to deal with, and I really want him to understand that I love him no matter what, and he doesn't need to be like DAVE.

I really don't know how this is going to pan out long term. As long as DH has a stick up his arse about men who are more successful than him, I can't see things changing.

I told him this morning that I am going to the party anyway. He looked shell-shocked. He can't believe I am going, without him. He just walked out of the house, drove off, and went to work. I'm not going to change my mind. I am going.

(No real names have been used...)

Sorry, the second half of that should have been in response to @Olicity not ocicity.

Thanks jojo for your reply too.

Is Dave taller than your husband by any chance too?

As much as people don't like to think it, 'small man syndrome' does exist and I think it's maybe a bit of that. He's jealous of any man above him, in business, life etc. But not women.

I don't think you will change him sadly. He'll always feel like the underdog. Maybe try reminding him of what he does have and why isn't he happy with that?

@Barbaro

My husband is average height - 5 ft 9, but Dave is actually smaller. 5 ft 6. I have heard of small man syndrome, but Dave doesn't have it all - that I know of. And DH doesn't have it either. (Probably coz he isn't small/short.)

I think you're right that I can't/won't change him. I am thinking there is going to be fireworks tonight when he comes home (after the way he glared at me and walked out in a huff this morning, because I said I was going to the party without him.)

I am not looking forward to it

Your husband has low self-esteem and a massive chip on his shoulder. I knew someone would have to type that bollocks about you fancying Dave. I'm appalled your husband thinks he can announce 'we're not going'. I would go to the party and start accepting their invitations. I would tell you husband that unless he makes his own apologies, you will just say, when asked, that he didn't want to come. He is making you feel uncomfortable and then interpretating the awkwardness as something to use against Dave. Is he 10 years old? Does he have a brother? Sibling issues?

I agree you should go to the party - it would as a minimum be polite but will probably be fun! I would just say hubby not fond of parties.
I know this doesn't help in the longer run but maybe your dh will reconsider his decision for next time if you stick your neck out this time.
I can see why dh may be intimidated by the sirrational but you are supportive and he needs to grow up. You don't need to be best mates with them but being courteous is important in the context of ds relationship.

Your dh is behaving like a jealous twat. Make sure you tell him how judgemental and pathetic he sounds, how unattractive it is, then refuse to listen to it any more. Just walk out when he starts. He's got a chip on his shoulder you won't be able to dislodge, so don't engage with his whinging any more. Perhaps he might get the message and at least stop involving you in his pity party.

Sorry intimidated by situation

Hi @bastardkitty @helpmum and @fritzdonavan

Yeah I was a bit and about the accusations of fancying Dave. I was like WTF Where did THAT come from??

Anyway, yeah DH is insecure, and has a chip on his shoulder. And he does seem jealous. And yes he has a brother - 1.5 years younger They never got on as kids, and have never got on as adults. They fought like cat and dog as children and were both almost expelled at school for constantly fighting in school. They have had no contact for 10 years and we don't even know where is is! (His brother had no kids, but has had various step-children as he has married 3 times.)

His brother was always very showy and bought fast cars, and had flying lessons and went sailing and always had fancy expensive clothes. He wasn't well-off though, he got into a lot of debt. He and his second wife's home was repossessed about 15 years ago.

He also borrowed money off their parents and never gave it back; like 5 or 6 grand, over several years, about 12 years ago, and DH never forgave him for that. It really upset their mother. Their parents died about 10 years, close together.

But the insecure 'I am so useless' shit started even when I first met him (25 years ago!) He is badly educated, but still intelligent and he could do well if he tried. But he has always said 'what is the point now, I am badly educated and useless,' and now he says 'I am too old moan moan moan.' (He forgot to mention he is lazy too!)

I do feel for him, but I wanna tear my hair out some days!

He said his dad never praised him and even said 'any fool can fucking do that!' when he passed his driving test. He also called him thick and lazy when I first met him. So I think he may be part of the reason for my DH's insecurity and self loathing. But OMG it can be annoying!

Still, as shitty as his dad was, he cannot keep blaming his shit life (as he puts it!) on things from the past. I won't go into it, but I didn't have the greatest childhood, and my mother was very critical of me, and rarely showed love, but I am not letting it affect my life. It's been a struggle, as I have fairly low self esteem, but there's only so much you can blame on your past, and other people. There comes a point when you have to move on. (Easier said than done I know...)

That all makes a lot of sense Martha7. It does sound like your H is projecting his sibling jealousies onto Dave. I would say your past did affect you, in different ways, but hasn't stopped you making a success of your own life. Your husband is very self-pitying and averse to looking at his own potential to change things and himself. That must be very wearing for you. You cannot pander to his self-pity and jealousy. Doing that won't help anyone. Have you ever talked about your relationship to a therapist?

Also how does he react when you don't fall in line with his wishes?

Op i dont think you have done anything wrong. Your husvand never wants to take better jobs and drops courses that would educate him, leaving the family with the bill.

Honestly i think you are right to tell him the truth if he is constantly moaning.

Yes hr may have family issues. I do too. But he needs to want to fix them. He needs to go get professional help if he wants to deal with the past or change his mindset.

The problem here is that yoi find this attitude unattractive and are getting fed up. I cany blame you fot that. He doesnt see an issue with the way he is. If you arent honest with him about how you feel about this issue, this could easily become what finishes your marriage.

Your resentment will grow. Your paitence will run out. He is creating a self fullfilling prophecy.