My marriage just ended - need practical advice

[ChangingStates]

My (13 year) marriage ended this evening. It's been a long time coming, not horribly acrimonious or abusive, no affair, just dead. The words ending it were his but could've been mine - I have it in me to work at it but he has no interest. I know I am going to feel a whole heap of things but right now I need to get practical! Sorry this may be long...

I just don't know what to do right now. Because there's no one shit thing or horrible argument no one neither of us is kicking the other out. We both believe shared care is the best way forward for the kids and us . He is proposing we buy a second property, the kids stay in the family home and we swap in and out of the second property and the family home so we each live half the week with them and half the week in the other property. I can see this is probably the easiest transition for the kids, has anyone tried it? We do ok financially but this is going to put huge strain and is also not a quick thing - it takes ages to buy a property, are we meant to live together until then? Have any of you continued to live in the house together after breaking up - was it manageable....?

Both of us earn ok salaries, not by any means rich but enough as a couple not to have to worry about day to day things and to have a nice holiday a year. He takes home more - same as me plus a quarter/third on top, we have some savings.

I am really worried about the kids, eldest dd is 10 and all over the place with hormones, starting to be quite defiant etc but under it all is a real softie, i am scared about how much impact this will have on her, and dd2 who is 7. I don't want to break their hearts.

Don't know what I am asking really , just blurting out random thoughts- do we see a mediator? a financial advisor? should I ask him to move out, should I, do we rent somewhere and start shared care straight away - should we keep on living together for a while while we sort things out?

Don't expect anyone to have any answers just need to vent as won't speak to friends/family until tomorrow. I am not feeling as strong and ok as I am being.

Hi again, in answer to your previous question - we were having serious difficulties for about a year, then in June I found out he was having an affair but we struggled on a few weeks me thinking we might sort it out and we then decided to split but still went on holiday together than summer (knowing he would be leaving). He finally left at the end Sept that year, into a rented house a few miles away. We live in a very cheap area of the U.K. so he got a decent rental with 3 small bedrooms.

We (mostly me) did everything ourselves. I got an free hour with s solicitor and then paid for another later on to go through financial stuff in more detail. Like you, all our finances except for household expenses, were separate and we earned about the same. The only difference was that I had a pension I’d paid into for years whilst he spent any spare cash! However we agreed that the only claim was on the house, had it valued and I agreed to pay him half of what we would have made if we sold it. Haven’t paid yet though as I live here with the kids and we agreed that I wouldn’t give him his share until they left school and in return he would stop paying towards the mortgage. It’s worked ok so far. He pays maintenance for the kids and nothing else.

I guess it’s different for you as no one is ‘at fault’ whereas for me, my ex had cheated on me and was the one who wanted to break up, therefore only fair he should be the one who left. He could see the kids more if he wanted, the offer is always there.

If I could do anything different I would probably get the finances sorted out properly at the start so I didn’t have the house ‘payment’ hanging over me and so I could feel like it had been a complete break.

original your agreement re house, did a solicitor draw it up?
I want to do the same, get an agreed value, establishing pro-rata equity entitlement, at which point he'll stop contribution to mortgage payment and receive a lump sum when youngest turns 16.

Ex is likely to inherit in next couple of years (I want to be divorced before then...) therefore he may be able to buy himself a property regardless.

Think it is pretty shocking that so many on here poo poo the situation where the kids stay in the house and parents rotate in. They then say that they would want their own place. And the kids can just have 2 . What about the kids - they would much prefer to have their own place . A lot of kids on 50.50 end up feeling that they don't have a home as they are always moving between them. I have seen research in the past showing rotating in as best option. And it is more common in other countries with lower property prices - where sometimes parents can buy their own place each and have the kids in a 3rd place into which they rotate in and out.

So I think its unfair to slate OPs ex for thinking of this as an option and wanting to spend a good portion of time with his kids.

As to OP question I went to a solicitor and into mediation and eventually to court as we couldnt agree. It was incredibly long winded and very expensive. And result not very different to what we might have agreed together

I have a friend who went through the same but didn.t do that. What they did was agree to sell main property and fund 2 smaller properties where the kids could stay. They went through their finances together and each looked for property in school area they wanted to stay. They then worked out what mortgage they could afford and agreed how much each got of sale of main property. They kept their own pensions, agreed 50 50 care and agreed an account for other expenses of child and how much to contribute to that each month and what that bought. They got legal advice each that their agreement was reasonable. They did have to work together on this but they saved a fortune on what I spent and got it sorted out very quickly.

Personally I dont like 50 50 for the child and think a main home is better (others will disagree). In the first 5 years my ex stayed one night a week in family home and I went out. So kids did have former family home as a main home.

Its a very tough time. But the more you can agree together and the less you use outside professionals the better I think. But with kids you always need an legal check that what is being proposed is reasonable to you.

He has met someone else. Sorry

Mumtum thank you for your insight and giving a different view on the children staying in the home and us moving in and out. I do see how it gives them stability. I think if we had separate properties outside the family home it could work but no way can we afford to have 3 mortgaged London properties, and the thought that if we only had 2 that both places, and beds, I would sleep in would also be slept in and shared by him seems wrong and certain complications further down the line.

Christina- maybe, not sure it changes where we are now if he has and prefer not to drive myself crazy speculating

Bed now, hoping for more sleep tonight. It’s been great having company on here today, thanks to everyone who’s posted

I think you know your own children and what will work for them. But I think a goal of 50/50 shared custody is a brilliant thing. It makes me so sad when decent, loving fathers don’t get to see their children as much just because everyone asssumes they should stay with the mother. It must be devastating for these fathers

I agree Oly5 and I have met some very devastated fathers.

And ChangingStates I realised 3 properties in London is unaffordable except to super rich .

Other suggestions for support for yourself at this time:

1. Go on divorce support course. There are a number around but I went on this London based one and it isn't perfect but is well run affordable and helps a lot of folk: www.restoredlives.org/ (run by a church but doesnt push religion and high proportion of participants arent Christian)

2. This 99 p book is helpful :www.amazon.co.uk/Divorce-Splitting-Up-Advice-Lawyer-ebook/dp/B00RM0ZU6A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509183676&sr=8-1&keywords=divorce+by+lawyer+book and her blog is useful if you want to research further on a specific subject: www.marilynstowe.co.uk/

3. Wikivorce is a huge comprehensive resource: www.wikivorce.com/divorce/

Have spent some time this morning reading about different custody arrangements and particularly the birds nest one which is parents moving in and out. It seems research definitely shows 50-50 whether it’s children moving or parents is better for mental health and well-being of the kids, although it does rely also in amicable split which I hope we can manage!

I am also coming round to thinking that the birds nest type approach as a transition for 6 months or so would work well for the kids and give us some time & space initially to make the bigger long term decisions.

Want to keep things as open and transparent as poss so am also going to suggest we go to a solicitor together, that way we hear the same things and he can feel secure that I am not not out to fleece him for every penny and I can feel secure that he’s not trying to hide any pennies. Does that sound like a crazy idea? Can always go separately after if we feel it’s needed!

Mumfun- I have downloaded the book on my kindle, thanks for the recommendation

I think your suggestions sound perfectly good and reasonable. Let’s hope he agrees.

Hi OP

we did the nest thing for 6 months. Ex stayed 3 nights per week and I when elsewhere.
Difficult adjustment but it did maintain status quo for the kids.

It has elongated the separation process definitely, but sometimes the rush to divorce is when the mistakes are made.

I'm much calmer now and can see amicable being a reality for our situation. Up until now id describe it as civil. Difficult for me to be friends with someone who hurt me so badly (and still does)

It's taken time and been so tough, but, kids seems happy and we're now 50|50.

Although that's an admin pita for me because he's useless.

If I could advise id suggest committing to review situation everything 6 weeks or so. That way you have some comeback if things start going awry.

All the best..

We couldn’t make the bird’s nest scenario work. He couldn’t accept that I was now separate from him, and did dreadful things like opening all the Christmas presents I’d wrapped from friends and family, removing the gifts he didn’t approve of, and then re-wrapping the empty boxes... He also left all the wife work to me.

We do have 50:50 shared care, and the children have adapted brilliantly, but we didn’t achieve amicable until we had separate houses. We now, a year on, get on very well as co-parents.

...wrapped for friends and family...

Wow Chachacha that is truly shit behaviour from your ex, not surprised the arrangement didn’t last, what a horrible time it must have been for you - I hope he has grown up since then! Am amazed you reached amicable but very glad you did.

Mememe thanks for sharing too, it’s good to hear from those that have tried it out, I can see it will mean everything takes longer but I hope it’ll be easier on the kids, and to be honest I think his plan was for us all to stay in this house together for a few months until it is all sorted out, not an option for me as at the moment I am quite clear headed & purposeful but think too long staying put would get confusing. Renting to enable birds nest means at least the first step happens sooner. 6 week check in is a great idea, will add it to the ever growing list of things I want in our agreement.

I have found wine to be a great help too

To the question about who drew up our agreement - we did! Bought a document template on line and customised it to suit our circumstances. Of course it is not legally binding but apparently a court would take it into account if things went wrong.

Re the comments about the ‘birds nest’ being the best, I really don’t agree. As long as parents are amicable and live not far apart, I don’t know any divorced couples with children who haven’t made this work. The key is being amicable enough to make this work. After all, most couples who are better off apart are also better off creating their own lives and letting the children have the benefit of seeing two distinct people. Plus, as others have said, you would end up being the one to make the shared space nice, clean, homely etc unless your H is in a minority of men who are interested in doing that.

The 50:50 care, I only know of one couple (out of 10 ish divorced couples I know) that has made this work. You have to be absolutely sure that the kids feel secure enough in both places to go for that. My kids love seeing their dad but he doesn’t feed them properly, they watch tv constantly there and live off ready meals and takeaways. That’s all fine for a day or two a week but not for half of it. However, as above, the couple I know who has made this work, the dad is amazing and provides the same care, food, experiences etc as the mum, so that works well. Only you know if you both are suited to that arrangement.

We did the nesting thing for about 2 years, but it became difficult once we had new partners and TBH I think it was fairly confusing for the kids in that they still thought we were still together in some way. Not only that, because we'd agreed that the marital home remained the family home, it meant that we couldn't have free, clear, honest relationships with others. and that we could walk in and out of the house at random, so there was no privacy.

Eventually, I put my foot down and we are now living separately properly. He still comes round to take the kids to school every day, and they stay with him 3 nights a week. My ex has a new home and I know he's a great dad so I'm not worried about their care while they're with him. They get on well with our new partners, and are happy, but they have three homes now (with me, my partners home, and my Exes) and I need to simplify that for them.