Broaching the subject of marriage counseling

[jamaisjedors]

DH and I have had an unhappy few years, culminating last summer when it all finally got aired.

Things are a bit better now, but I feel they could be SO much better and didn't want to slip back into old habits.

I am seeing a counsellor and she has suggested that marriage counseling would be a good idea (based on some of the things I've told her).

I have no idea how to start the conversation with DH though.

I think he will be upset because I'm fairly sure he thinks things are ok now and will take this as a criticism or a knockback.

Any thoughts on how to bring this up without making a drama about it? Only time we get alone is in bed, not sure that's the best place for this conversation...

Thanks.

What I hope is that couples counseling will strengthen the communication in our relationship so that the stonewalling stops.

The stonewalling isn’t caused by the relationship issues though, or indeed his MH issues: he has taken the decision to behave, at times (for 2 weeks at a time!), in an abusive way that affects you and the DC badly. It’d be better for him to seek help to cease this behaviour.

Can really understand the hope it’ll somehow cease, and he will treat you well consistently, when times are good and not so good, but at present he isn’t, is he?

What would happen if you just found a counsellor and booked a session and any necessary childcare?

What is your next step if he directly refuses to attend couples’ counselling, or stonewalls over or sabotages it? (Eg by “running late”).

I don't know. I think he would take it as another example of mr taking decisions behind his back or forcing him into it.

If he agrees to go, he won't cancel or turn up late.

We have committed to making things work after everything blew up last year but I don't know if he'll commit to taking the time out from work to work on this.

I guess I'm secretly scared he won't take the time to prioritise our relationship and that's not good at all.

What type of things does he think you “forced” him to do, or went against him on?

Many counsellors work in the evenings and at weekends. Obviously childcare costs add to the cost. But cheaper than living unhappily or divorce.

We can find the time to fit it in despite v busy jobs, it's more a question of wanting to.

Until now childcare could have been an issue but now they can get themselves home it will be easier.

I will bring it up tonight, I have the name of someone my counselor recommended, although now worried he'll think I've been talking about him behind his back and why didn't I say this before?

The fact that I'm scared to talk about this means we really need to go I think

So You don’t need to tell him where you got the recommended counsellor’s name: you could just say, for example, it’s from a professional body’s website.

Sooo... Brought it up today when we had had a nice lunch together and no kids around.

First he pretended not to know what I was referring to.

Then he said (nicely) that counseling would do his head in and that he didn't have the for it at the moment and it would bring back too may bad memories (we saw a psychologist separately for 2-3 sessions last year after a serious health problem.)

DH "I can't talk about this now, I need to think about it"

Me. "It's been 10 days".

DH "I'm too busy right now for this, I've got this, this and this to do."

Me " how about it doing a program from s book ?'

DH turns back to computer.

The tone was perfectly nice but everything dismissed out of hand.

I have no idea what to do now, there is never a "non" busy time. Had already put off the subject for weeks months

I was expecting an argument or silence but am using being brushed off.

For him I think I'm being hard work and neurotic (hadn't said it this time but had many times in the past) .

I guess his point of view is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and also he has no desire to dig up all the painful stuff from the past.

He just used different tactics and wants you to shut up and accept the status quo. So you should assume that his behaviour will continue as before.

Calling you “hard work” and “neurotic” is not OK.

And it IS broken: he often doesn’t treat you well. But apparently that works for him.

I hear you, thank you, I was starting to doubt myself.

I am not dropping this. We have half term coming up and even though work doesn't stop totslly, I will try again for a more in depth chat about this.

If he refuses flat out to go, I have no idea what to do next.

I am seeing my counselor in 2 weeks, I guess I can talk it over with her, but there's only so much I can do alone.

It isn’t how or when you said it, it’s you saying it that’s the problem. He’s not interested in your feelings or opinions, he’s made it very clear that his preference is for you to STFU and he will ignore your attempts until you do.

The fact that you characterise your relationship as better than before, speaks volumes as to how bad it must have been because it’s pretty poor now.

You need to let go of the idea that he doesn’t understand, he does but he isn’t interested in your feelings or opinions. You however, can’t seem to accept that you aren’t and probably never were, his priority. A counsellor won’t change his attitude because he doesn’t see or want to see that his behaviour is a problem.

No he doesn't.

Or he feels that everything else is so important that I can wait.

We both have a tendency to put work above all things.

Just now he's actually admitted that he has stomach ache from stress from me bringing up the question.

I said we will talk about it later (he's in the middle of doing some tricky DIY).

That was a manipulative thing for him to say. Have you mentioned how being sulked at and fobbed off has made YOU feel?

I will.

We have discussed in depth in the past, which is what he is referring to.

Op, sorry you're not making any progress. Have you tried putting your feelings in a letter to him before? Sometimes spelling out the severity of the need for e.g. Counselling & carefully choosing your words to state that you think it may be the only option left, will give him time to reAd it & think about it without a knee jerk reaction.

He obviously really doesn't want to do it so you need to be careful. I don't know how it's best to show him the potential benefits to him in the long term though....

Thank you buckeejit.

We are away for a few days and he is being very supportive with a family situation.

But we still haven't discussed it again.

I'm thinking I might suggest a couple's weekend instead and show him all the blurb about imago therapy :

"Learn how to create the safety necessary to work with difficult and more complex issues in your relationship

Create a shared relationship vision

Learn new tools and techniques to bring more joy and aliveness to your relationship

Deepen connection and intimacy in your relationship

Understand how your brain informs every single interaction allowing you to move from reactive to responsive behaviour"

I think all of those things sound positive rather than the negative dragging up of old conflicts which I think he is expecting.

That does sound very forward thinking rather than retrospective. Good plan.

We tried to go together but I just got absolutely furious about having to walk both dh and the rather drippy counsellor through a load of stuff that I'd already said 1000 times, and then watch him react like it was some sort of fucking revelation just because it was coming through someone else. Lots of our problems stemmed from me feeling like the driver/manager of our whole relationship and I wanted him to step forwards a bit. A lot actually. What worked was him going to counselling on his own, and thinking about/getting better at taking an active role in his emotional life, what he needs, etc. I'd say he went for about 10 sessions; I'd already been on my own a bit earlier for a while. Lots has changed-you have to put the work in yourself as well-and things are really good good now.

tldr: going together isn't necessarily the best thing, going separately can be really really helpful, especially if one partner has specific problems.

You believe marriage counselling will make everything better. He is not willing to entertain the idea (yet). So straight away there's a problem, what are you going to do about it? Keep pressing him? Find an alternative? Listen to his ideas? Just talk to each other?
A few things to consider;
You have some criticisms of his behaviour, does he accept these as issues?
Do you think there's anything you could improve upon with your own behaviour and attitude? Or do you think none of the issues are anything to do with you? (Marriage counselling won't help if it's not two way),
Are you ready to listen to his comments about you?
What do you actually hope to achieve by counselling?
If he continues to refuse the idea, what then? Put up and shut up or leave?

You think you have the answer but it takes two to make a marriage work. No councellor can wave a magic wand and make it all better for you both, you have to be prepared to put the effort in yourselves

sorry to keep wanging on...

I just get the sense that he might need some practice away from you to start talking. Like I did, you've got really clear ideas about what you want, and you want him to get on board with them. That's a good position to be in! But if he's not there, he needs to get there through his own volition. There might be stuff he's never explored and needs space to talk through with someone else before he brings them to you-not because they're terrible, but because he wants to be careful with you. It's such a lot of pressure to go into counselling for the first time with a partner-there's so much at stake. It doesn't sound like he's given up on your relationship-at all-it sounds like you've got loads going for you-so the stonewalling might be about fear, or his own distance from his own feelings, or any number of other things-all of which he might feel safer talking about with someone uninvolved.

I did end up giving an ultimatum, saying something like 'we can keep going like this, with flare-ups every so often, but if we don't learn to communicate better our relationship will die off. Not now, maybe in two years, maybe in five, definitely in 10. I do not want that! Please, please try this-it has to be worth it'

It's worth having a really thorough look around as counsellors vary dramatically. And I'd say 2-3 sessions is really not enough-try for 8 at least.

Thank you all for your interesting and helpful comments.

I agree that he needs to see a counsellor but he thinks that the 2-3 sessions he had last year are enough. Certainly they helped break through a massive amount of stuff which had been unsaid for years.

But now I feel like we are back to everything being unsaid again.

I also realized last year how much our problems were 2 sided, not "all his fault" as I'd previously thought.

I feel that if we'd gone to counseling then I would have been waiting for validation that I was right. I hope I'm past that stage now so that counseling would be productive.

I have no idea what I will do of he keeps on refusing to discuss this or anything.

I can't tell if I'm being totally unreasonable and just making a fuss over nothing.

After all I have a pretty good life, great kids, a job I love, lovely house, a husband who has stuck with me for better or for worse.

I wonder if I'm being selfish or unrealistic to want more out of this relationship, but on the other hand I am often walking on eggshells and feel lonely.

Any positive stories about marriage counseling or improving a marriage without it?