Questioning my longest friendships

[earplugsandchocolate]

I've been in therapy for around 5 years following a difficult upbringing with toxic, volatile, alcoholic parents.
I've read all sorts of books, spoken to several therapists, done courses, studied mindfulness and acceptance, evaluated my childhood relationships/adult relationships etc etc.
Im now early thirties and finally feel comfortable in my own skin and worthy of love, kindness and affection from decent, mentally healthy people. My early twenties were full of abusive relationships, hollow friendships and risky behaviours.
5 years ago, I met a wonderful man who has supported me on my journey to heal myself of the wounds of my upbringing and become a better person as a result. 2 years ago we had DS.
I feel I've come a long way (although still a way to go) but I've become extremely refeclevtive of the friendships I've carried through with me from my teen years. Mainly 3 people.
I've come to discover that they often behave as my mother did: unpredictable, abrupt, jealous, a feeling of them not really liking me anymore or feeling happy for me when things go well. Like my mother.
There are positives to these friendships which I've had in my life for the last 15 years. I enjoy their company when things are harmonious between us and I feel I have their support. But maybe 60% of the time, I'm not sure the basis of these friendships are healthy ones. The women all have sides which remind me of my unreliable mother.
This is on my mind constantly. A feeling that my closest friendships are not close at all. Knowing that when DS was born, one of these "close friends" took 4 months to visit. That another never contacted me for 2 months when my grandmother died (who eventually took me in during my late teens). And that another of my friends makes sarcastic comments about the good that happens in my life. Another thing to point out is that all 3 of these frinds have problematic relationships with their own mothers! All similar reasons: neglect, alcohol, unpredictability. I have no doubt that I subconsciously chose them to be part of my circle at a young age for reasons I was never even aware of at the time. However, I'm beginning to notice, that as adults, they have come to behave in similar ways: unpredictable, appearing to not care and seemingly jealous of the positives in my life.
Losing 3 of the main friendships that have taken me through 15 years of my life feels a daunting prospect. But I can't help but question where they go now. My generosity, kindness, my regular attempts at being a good friend to them just gets missed and I'm not sure if these friendships can flourish any more. Please help.

Hmm hard to know without a lot more info!

I have a similar but less traumatic background to you, one of my friends has a very similar background to you.

At one point we became distant and she recognised that it was due to her fear of being let down. We live geographically far apart - when we catch up it's great because we get each other.

So for me it works our lives aren't hugely intertwined anymore I can forgive her sometimes flakiness and not take it personally. Her life is difficult, she is doing her best IYSWIM.

Could you change the parameters of your friendships and see if you can ditch the negative bits and retain some of the positives? See them less, stick to more peripheral things, see them as the damaged people they are?

Yes. This is good advice randomMess. I'm not sure I've actually lowered my expectations in line with what I've discovered about these friends. I guess seeing the friendships as they have become, rather than what they could be is a good part of the battle.
I have made some healthier friendships in recent years but I find it difficult to forge good friendships with healthy, decent people as I often don't feel good enough. I often feel like a fraud still. I think if only they knew about 21 year old me... what would they think.

Congratulations on the work you've done on yourself

I had s similar upbringing to yourself and noticed how I ended up in some very intense, negative interactions with women with similar narc personalities to my mother.

I mean they didn't hit me (at least!) but their

• being negative and controlling and critical

• trying to "take over my life" - demanding they were invited along to anything I was doing that didn't include them, then ruining the event. Or demanding information about my plans then sitting there sighing and telling me how it was ""wrong" (whilst being complete fuck up themselves)

• just generally shit untrustworthy behaviour - lying, talking about me behind my back, telling others my private information.

I went nc with them and they all stalked me

I don't mean sending me an email saying "you ok? Miss you hope you get in touch"

but really bombarding me with contact, getting in touch with my work and other friends to discuss "my appalling behaviour" and how I was "mentally ill due to child abuse" so needed "managing"

I think the solution with people like this is just to ignore/ ignore/ ignore.

If you "sense" they are off then I suspect what that means practically is they are semi abusive and the quality of your life will be a lot better without them.

I also think that if you cut them out, more space will be made in your life for positive interactions. Narcs tend to put other people off and like to sap their "friends" emotional energy.

The quality of my life is great now. But in my early 20's, I think of a lot of potential hobbies, connections, and life directions I could have had were fucked up due to my "friends" sabotaging me.

I agree that the best way to deal with this might be to fade them a bit more into friends you see less often, and rely on less. We all learn how to be adults from our parents, and even if we know our parents are not good role models, even if they are abusive or addicted or neglectful, it’s hard to escape the 'programming' and stop ourselves from replicating their behaviours. You've put in the work to escape that: you've done the therapy, you've examined your relationships and yourself and you're continuing to do so. And that is hard. Therapy is a slog. It sounds like they are gradually falling into the habits of the parents they, and you, managed to escape. You need to gently, and gracefully, move on with your life. For your and your family.

Yeah it is difficult isn't it! Also they don't get stuff the same way you do.

One of my oldest dearest friend was really shocked I'm not planning on going to my Mum's funeral I was so upset that she of ALL people couldn't get it.

I'm on the exact same position as you. My oldest friend and who I would have always said my best friend, has slowly been exposed as more like my abusive mother than I knew. Selfish, unpredictable, and on times cruel.

As I have grown and managed/addressed my issues, I've begun to notice more and more. I share your uncertainty about distancing yourself from the relationships- but imo it is likely the best choice. Hard to do in real life though .

Sorry to hear about your mother's death Random, mainly because of you and how difficult it can be to lose a parent you didn't like or even didn't love. It can be even more difficult than losing a close, loved one from a friend's experience. Well done for sticking to your guns about the funeral.

It's amazing how we choose to have relationships with people like our family members. I always thought I was consciously avoiding replicas of my parents like the plague.... obviously not! My friends are so similar to my mother. All buy the best, all singing all dancing gifts, on paper- great friends. But with no substance, reliance or support from them in real life. Going as far as to say I'm sure they actually dislike me. The same goes for my mother.

My Mum hasn't died yet but it will be soonish. If I go it means facing Dad and brother...

I've been mourning having a Mum for nearly 30 years. I will be distraught when it happens and I'm not prepared to be seen like that by my "family".

Life truly is complicated and so difficult. Your "friends" aren't particularly "nice" people by the sounds of it

It's not that they're cruel, more that they are not particularly reliable and don't appear to like me very much anymore. One friend referred to me as a "snob" a while back, I expect it was supposed to be a joke, but I know it's really what she thinks.

Yes I can identify with this.I realised recently my 3 so called best friends, aren't. One never contacts me yet will always respond if I contact her. Her father recently died and at the end of the conversation I instigated will always suggest my mum and her mum meet and go for lunch. Initially I thought it was a nice gesture but I realise she had never suggested that in the 20 years my mum has been on her own after my dad died. I realised then the only time she contacted me was for advice or if a family member was ill. The second friend is the same. Unreliable. She wanted to go on a city break which I arranged as she was on holiday the week before. We were due to go on a Friday and she returned on a Monday. I couldn't get hold of her tues, wed. Finally the day before we went she answered the phone claiming she was resting. Then on holiday lots of put downs.
My mum is frail on her own. I am the only relative in this country and these people live in her city yet I'd never call them for help, neither would they ever offer to pop over. Yet I visited their parents in hospital and at home.
Their behaviour very much mimics that of my dad who was unreliable (wouldn't turn up, spent every afternoon in the pub etc, become verbally violent with alcohol etc). And my behaviour had been mimicking my mums (grateful for any input from my dad, never calling him out on his behaviour).
I be basically let them all fade away. It has been easy for they don't contact me anyway. I've felt hurt as I know they all meet up together often. I too believe they probably don't like me. If they did they would contact me. Feeling I don't fit in is a feeling I have had most of my adult life and these friendships were just adding to that feeling.
The upside is because I have more time I am in a better place with my mum but I often wonder why I can't form solid friendships.